Solid layer issue on my Orion

[jmpreuss]

I have been spending most of my time lately finishing my Max but finally got back to my Orion to get it printing well. Here is a picture of what I have been battling with it from day one. Image on the top is from 3Dcreator, bottom from Slic3r.

It seems to be a simple extrusion issue but nothing I do fixes it.
This is what I know and have done.
Perimeters print fine, I can produce great vase prints and I don't see any issues with the sides of my prints.
Swapped out the .35 nozzle it came with for the standard .5 (heard sometimes .35 is tougher to deal with)
Top mounted the filament to reduce friction (this was a long shot and something I would have done anyway)
Did the 100mm in one minute test, pushes the filament out no problem (even with the .35), no stalling what so ever.
Used different slicers (note, these slicers are producing fine prints on my max so I don't think its config setting on my part)
Recalibrated, and reuploaded the firmware.
Used different color filaments (all PLA to this point)
Tried all sorts of normal and extreme slicing setting to try to fix this.

The print looks like it is interlaced to me but I have no idea how that could be or what could cause that. I am really hoping it is something obvious to somebody here on the forum. I myself have run out of ideas on how to fix this.

[Nylocke]

I think you're under extruding, in the Rostock MAX forums there is a thread at the top where it talks about extruder calibration. Go try that out.

[dpmacri]

Looking at the picture, and using a digital caliper to measure the thickness of the lines in "ROSTOCK MAX" on my printer, I'd say you're printing lines wider than 0.5mm (which would make sense with a .5mm nozzle. Which says to me that the printer has the distance between lines wrong. How wide is that whole item compared to the size of the object you're supposed to be printing? Is it coming out twice as wide? I'm wondering if your steps per mm is somehow off. Did you change the firmware on the Orion and end up using something with Rostock MAX values for the Orion?

[jmpreuss]

Looking at the picture, and using a digital caliper to measure the thickness of the lines in "ROSTOCK MAX" on my printer, I'd say you're printing lines wider than 0.5mm (which would make sense with a .5mm nozzle. Which says to me that the printer has the distance between lines wrong. How wide is that whole item compared to the size of the object you're supposed to be printing? Is it coming out twice as wide? I'm wondering if your steps per mm is somehow off. Did you change the firmware on the Orion and end up using something with Rostock MAX values for the Orion?

I didn't update the firmware until yesterday, I was getting the same results before and after.

The steps per mm was a good thought, it looks like that kind of problem, but it is a 20mm cube that measures just about 20 mm. I did measure the lines and they were about .8mm wide which is in the ballpark of what you would expect. As a side note when I first updated the firmware yesterday I did accidentally use a max config and not an orion. The test cube was improperly proportioned, but the problem was still present.

So I wonder what else could cause the distance between lines to be wrong. It is really weird, this was a SeeMeCNC demo unit that had over 24 hours of printing on it before I won it so I have to assume it was working for them, but it has never printed correct for me. I'm pretty sure they were using ABS but I don't think that explains this.

[Eaglezsoar]

Have you contacted SeeMeCNC support about this? They should be very familiar with this printer since they had it printing for 24 hours.
I'm sure they could pinpoint the problem in a short period of time.

[jmpreuss]

Making some progress here.

First, a little history. I got my machine as the first batch was being sent out and documentation wasn't done yet. I also had a non-standard .35 nozzle. Now there is a user manual and I have a .5 nozzle now so I decided maybe I should go through that new manual again. It has a link to a baseline slic3r ini file which I downloaded. It still was a bit thin but I adjusted extrusion multiplier to 1.1 and I got a decent print. That multiplier is a bit high so there could still be a calibration issue with the extruder but I can live with this for now. Now I have to see if I can translate the slic3r setting into 3Dcreator.

Thanks for everyone's feedback.

[jmpreuss]

I have been neglecting my Orion trying to get my Max configured, so now it is time to ignore my max to get my Orion configured.

So I had some success with the .5 nozzle. I went back to the .35 nozzle and the tops still looked really sparse. After many calibration cubes it came down to if I want to print with the .35 nozzle I have to slow way down, like 15mm/s (even bumping up to 20mm/s let to a noticeable drop in top layer quality).

Anyway at 15mm/sec the .35 nozzle prints look great.

Feeling much better now that I can count on the printer to produce parts with the same quality I can get with my PTMNBN. I knew it could do it, I just needed to get to know it. Now if I can only get my max at the same level...

[brbubba]

I have been neglecting my Orion trying to get my Max configured, so now it is time to ignore my max to get my Orion configured.

So I had some success with the .5 nozzle. I went back to the .35 nozzle and the tops still looked really sparse. After many calibration cubes it came down to if I want to print with the .35 nozzle I have to slow way down, like 15mm/s (even bumping up to 20mm/s let to a noticeable drop in top layer quality).

Anyway at 15mm/sec the .35 nozzle prints look great.

2014-01-19 15.35.13.jpg

Feeling much better now that I can count on the printer to produce parts with the same quality I can get with my PTMNBN. I knew it could do it, I just needed to get to know it. Now if I can only get my max at the same level...

My PLA experience seems to mimic that, slowing it down to 15mm/s sorts out any potential issues. I have been unable to go faster than that and maintain quality in PLA. The solution, AFAIK, is to get a fan or use ABS or just live with the print speed.

[Lasivian]

My guess is you might need to increase the temp for the smaller nozzle at higher speed but I could be wrong.

[johnoly99]

Also,

Try lowering your 'extrusion width' in slic3r, under print settings>advanced. The defaults work 'most of the time', but tweaking those are what can lead to really great improvements

[jmpreuss]

Also,

Try lowering your 'extrusion width' in slic3r, under print settings>advanced. The defaults work 'most of the time', but tweaking those are what can lead to really great improvements

Actually I forgot to mention I did that too for this smaller nozzle (for me I found the best result for this nozzle size and pla was to set the extrusion width to the nozzle size).

[int2str]

Actually I forgot to mention I did that too for this smaller nozzle (for me I found the best result for this nozzle size and pla was to set the extrusion width to the nozzle size).

I think on ABS that's a problem. If I set the extrusion width to nozzle diameter I have been running into similar problems as you. Try 0.5mm for a 0.4mm nozzle or similar and see how that turns out.

[DavidF]

I have had similar problems, I was using slic3r and getting gaps like you pictured. If I generate the g code in cura i dont have this problem.
I know alot of guys on here like the kisslicer and I have yet to try it. Bit I do notice there are some issues with slic3r giving me grief at times, and I get better prints with the cura.....

[bvandiepenbos]

Also,

Try lowering your 'extrusion width' in slic3r, under print settings>advanced. The defaults work 'most of the time', but tweaking those are what can lead to really great improvements

lowering? shouldn't you increase extrusion width to get fill lines to touch each other?

[jmpreuss]

Also,

Try lowering your 'extrusion width' in slic3r, under print settings>advanced. The defaults work 'most of the time', but tweaking those are what can lead to really great improvements

lowering? shouldn't you increase extrusion width to get fill lines to touch each other?

In one sense the extrusion width shouldn't effect this at all, if you set the extrusion width wider the slicer should pump out more plastic, narrower less and it should all cancel out. But clearly if you go to extremes (say 1.5mm extrusion width on a .5 nozzle) the wider the width the greater the gaps.

Here is my personal theory. Having extrusion width = nozzle width + 10% make complete sense for ABS because it tends to swell. For PLA having the extrusion width be close to the same as the nozzle width often leads to better results because it does not swell (well, very little anyway). I usually use simplify 3D as my slicer and I know he has a Rep2 (a PLA only machine in stock set up) and he spent a tremendous amount of time building good default profiles for it. His default for the rep2 is extrusion width=nozzle size exactly.

[lordbinky]

For kisslicer I set my extrusion width as a function of print speed and layer height. For layer heights 1mm and lower I have to increase the extrusion width so it the traces are further apart because of the squish involved. For faster speeds I have to decrease the extrusion width because the extruded filament stretches more. So much fun getting a feel for this stuff....