Windshadow's Rostock Max V2 build

[Windshadow]

Thanks the first attempt does tell me that success is possible.... the bed seems to take forever to get to 80c even with a towel on it I did not know that about black ABS what color and vender does the easy print ABS

the bottom of the failed print shows me that the part closer to the front of the max between the X and Y towers neatly flattened while at the Z tower side the filaments seem to be totally un squashed in the base layer so I need to two the recalibrate in the morning and wash the plate and really do a care full job of putting on the cross hatch pattern of purple elmers gluestick.
the only other filament I have is PLA so I will have to make the black work for the fan shrouds

[nitewatchman]

I was going to ask about your first layer. Hard to see but there looks to be a radius on the bottom edge. Usually on successful prints you should see a sharp square corner or a bit of an elephant's foot. In the absence of one of these, you likely too high in your first pass. The first layer should look rectangular and flat on top, any ropey appearance indicates that the contact between the layer and the bed in just a thin line of contact and is not going to hold. The other extreme is having the nozzle too low and here the layer can be squished out completely and in some cases so low that the ezstruder can be heard to skip because the bed has the end of the nozzle blocked.

I suggest lowering your nozzle in 0.05mm increments until you get the hang of it. Print a couple or four layers and abort the print with the reset button. Then try to take the layers off with your fingers. If it just rubs off you are still to high, you should be able to peel it off with effort but it should offer resistance. If it is tight but smeared to just a streak, obviously you are too low.

Important: This only works if you bed is leveled accurately to the plane of the effector.

Good luck. Another word of advise, keep a cardboard box next to the printer to chunk the almost good parts in until you get the hang of it.

[Earthbound]

All of my printing with ABS has been with black filament. About 4 x 1kg spools so far. Have not had any particular trouble getting it to adhere, but then have no other colors of ABS to compare. Getting it to stick to glue requires a good first layer height as nitewatchman says. Also, I found fairly high bed temps to be needed with glue (100-110C). Now I print ABS on Kapton tape with the bed at 90C. Works beautifully. So well that I have put off installation of the PEI sheet I purchased.

Also, stock nozzle is fine for ABS unless you've got a brand that wants very high heat. I've had some that wanted 238C for good results and the spool I'm using now is best at 223C, which was a surprise.

Once you've got the PEEK fan shroud done, you may want to wrap some Kapton tape around the heater block of the hot end to insulate it from the airflow of the PEEK fan. You'll want to run PID autotune again, after.

It can be useful to watch the print and see how/what is causing the breakway. If the nozzle is dragging across the top of the part and tearing it off the bed, increase "Z-lift". If it is warping and popping off without mechanical help, you may be able to adjust the printing parameters to reduce the warping. Warping is all about stresses. Printing slower can help. Printing at an unnecessarily high temperature hurts. The lowest temperature that still gives good layer bonding is what you are looking for.

[Eaglezsoar]

Thanks the first attempt does tell me that success is possible.... the bed seems to take forever to get to 80c even with a towel on it I did not know that about black ABS what color and vender does the easy print ABS

the bottom of the failed print shows me that the part closer to the front of the max between the X and Y towers neatly flattened while at the Z tower side the filaments seem to be totally un squashed in the base layer so I need to two the recalibrate in the morning and wash the plate and really do a care full job of putting on the cross hatch pattern of purple elmers gluestick.
the only other filament I have is PLA so I will have to make the black work for the fan shrouds

If the purple glue stick is not working, try one of the unscented hair sprays on a clean glass. I use Aqua Net in a purple can. You spray a coat of hair spray onto the clean glass then heat your bed to 90c and let the hairspray dry then print
your parts. Just something else to try.

[Windshadow]

thanks guys i plan to put the trick laser AL heat spreader between the onyx and the glass today before I start from scratch on the recalibration but based on how long it took the plate to get to 80c yesterday i may have problem there as well i will tape a thermocouple i normally use for my heat trading oven to the plate to see if the reported them temp is true
here is the high res of the bottom
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/819 ... Render.jpg[/img]
The rectangle is measuring 25.4mm by 10.5mm you can see that the front part has good adhesion and squash of the first layer and the back toward the Gamma tower is higher in the Z plane so yes I need to do a better calibration
the delta is mesmerizing to watch and I need a LED ring around the nozzle to better see what it is doing
the individual threads seen at the top are .06mm from the stock .05 nozzle

[geneb]

The HF-151 build was fun. It's nice to know that Heathkit stuck their foot into it on occasion - there's no instruction telling the builder to install the drive cage into the chassis. The 5th video has failed processing at YouTube twice, so I may try splitting it in half and trying again (it's a bit over 2 hours).

g.

[nitewatchman]

thanks guys i plan to put the trick laser AL heat spreader between the onyx and the glass today before I start from scratch on the recalibration but based on how long it took the plate to get to 80c yesterday i may have problem there as well i will tape a thermocouple i normally use for my heat trading oven to the plate to see if the reported them temp is true
here is the high res of the bottom
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/819 ... Render.jpg[/img]
The rectangle is measuring 25.4mm by 10.5mm you can see that the front part has good adhesion and squash of the first layer and the back toward the Gamma tower is higher in the Z plane so yes I need to do a better calibration
the delta is mesmerizing to watch and I need a LED ring around the nozzle to better see what it is doing
the individual threads seen at the top are .06mm from the stock .05 nozzle

Looking at the bottom of the fan shroud, I would say that you are significantly out of level (mm's if the nozzle is touching the bed on one end of a full bed diameter compared to the height of the other diameter end) AND still too high. I desire to get a bottom surface that has either very faint layer lines or NO layer lines.

gary

[Windshadow]

That is what I thought as well I changed from paper that is 0.13 thick to some that is 0.07mm thick to set with but getting the bed level will be key I am sure. I have to get down on my knees when doing those tower cal macros and it is very hard to see how high or low the gamma one is even then
I think I need to be able to pause the tower cal at each of the tower position and then see their actual height with real feeler gauges and then know what the change is from the set with paper 0.07 z height at O O

I can only start the print by pointing my heat gun at the build plate to get to 80c once it starts printing the temp slowly falls to 72.3c and holds there in a very steady way even though the red bed light is rapidly flickering and the bed is commanded to 80c

[nitewatchman]

Check to see if your "Bed PID Drive Max" is set to 255. This is towards the end of the EEPROM Configuration. If the bed in significantly undertemp, the PWM output to the bed should be in WAO Mode and the LED should be on constantly. I use Repetier-Host to control the printer and in manual mode the display can be toggled to "Temperature Curve" this will show a graph of power output to the hot end and bed. During heatup it should be at 100%.

If "Bed PID Drive Max" is not at 255, set to 255 and rerun the PID Auto-calibration.

If the system voltage is significantly under 12VDC it may take a long time to get to temp. I build my original printer with a 750W Corsair P/S from the gitgo and the system voltage was always slightly over 12VDC but it would still take 20 to 30 minutes to get to 100C. I switched over to a 24VDC P/S on year ago yesterday and now 25C to 100C takes from 5 to 6 minutes with out any aids (dish towels or heatgun) and using a 1/16" Copper Heat Spreader.

Be careful with the heat gun. If you locally overheat significantly over 120C, very bad things could happen (dogs breeding with cats - real Old Testament Stuff). It could also lead to a bed failure with the trace lifting from the G10.

gary

[Windshadow]

Thanks Garry I don't recall doing the bed auto calibration after I did the hotted one that must be it. I tried to print the http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:50505 one and it slammed the effector into the Gamma tower about 8 inches above the bed the circles were centered on the build plate graphic... I just imported it to MC and hit print i did not touch any of the setting between the print in this photo and attempting the peace symbol like test print. I just shut down and decided to take a break and get more advice...
This is my third attempt
I almost got a useable print after improving the level z plane some snot problems to work out once i get the bed heat straightened out
it detached about 10 layers from done I think
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/819 ... 281%29.jpg[/img]

[Windshadow]

i am on page 28 of the user manual where i did the PID for the hot end but I don't see the PID calibrate for the bed heater

is it another command like the “M303 S200” i used for the hot end PID calibration?

[nitewatchman]

M303 P1 S100

Where "S" is the bed calibration target temp. Could just as easily be 60 or 80. If you have trouble with the AutoTune timing out before it reaches target, move the target down and make the PID corrections of the lowered target and then work your way back up.

[Windshadow]

well this is what it is now
Bed heat manager [0-3] 1
Bed PID drive max 255 (was 200)
Bed PID Drive min 80
Bed PID P-gain 87.86
Bed PID I-gain 3.01
Bed PID D-gain 641.82
Bed PID max value [0-255] 200
I did make the change from 200 to 255 but the only auto pid command i can find in the manual is the hot end one of M303 above and if I run that with a setting of 255 I will wreck the PEEK I think right?
should I just change the bed pid max value to 255 as well

ok I see your new post I will run that and report back once it is run I assume I do the same averaging and input those derived values in the eprom editor just as I did with the hotend auto tune?

yep at 100 it failed with a time out trying 80 now.... do i do the averaging each time and increase by 5c or 10c each time till i get to 100?

[nitewatchman]

The Bed at 200 is a major problem. That allow the bed to only run at `80% max power and it is power challenged anyway. Never get to 100C. the "Bed PID Drive Max" and "Bed PID Max Value" should both be 255.

Leave the hot end alone, 200 is fine for it. The number 0-255 is a percentage maximum current allow to the device. Increasing it won't kill the PEEK section unless you also increase the temperature target temp and the Firmware is restricted from this event.

Just run one time starting at say 60 and make the changes. Increase to 75 run again, etc. until it either gets there or stops improving.

[Windshadow]

Many thanks Garry making progress now it worked at 60

[Windshadow]

but after doing the averages at 60c i tried to go to 75 and it timed out the same at 70c trying 65c right now

This is a touch wacky:

• at 60c I got Kp --------- Ki --------------Kd
  ------------------------76.91------------1.60---------- 923.35
  -----------------------130.36------------3.43-----------1239.26
  -----------------------109.20-------------2.89----------1032.79
  average ---------------- 105.49------------- 2.64----------1065.10

those all seem reasonable and so i entered them in the bed slots i then after attempting higher I went to 65c and got what looks to me like bad data

• At 65c--------------------------- Kp-----------------Ki---------------Kd
  ------------------------------1374.36-----------588.21---------- 802.8
  -------------------------------- 124.34-------------3.54---------1093.45
  ------------------------------- 1884.83-----------798.49---------1112.29

since the Ki values for the first and third are so large and the second Kp so small I decided to run 66c without entering the average numbers for 65c into the EEPROM
An it once again timed out
I must be doing something wrong.... it worked very neatly for the Hot end

any instructions are gratefully received

[geneb]

The bed is too large to be able to reliably use the auto-tune process. That's why it's not included with the manual.

g.

[Windshadow]

JJ has responded to the problem that Gene fixed about the LCD cables and i have responded to him
Hi JJ yes Gene saw my plea on the forum and set me straight (i had not noticed that the picture showing the inserted cables was upside down form the picture that had you mark the pin locations so while I had a t a and b- b the pin one end of the ribbon was at the wrong end of the pins….

but I do have problems my thread http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=9406
covers them please look at page 2
Well the bed will only take a n auto tune command for 60c not the needed 100c and it should heat to 80c in about 10 to 12 min from a room at 23c my room is at 20c as I am cheap and i like things on the cool side..
73 C seems to be the max after an hour of heating
. So what is going on?

Three possibilities
1. the power supply is not putting out it's rated power.... Unlikely I think but possible
2. The bed itself is defective... Also a low chance....
3. The thermistor I installed is faulty… or it is no longer in its proper position in the hole…. Ah I bet this is it. Have pulled the thermocouple used in my heat treating oven to see exactly what the bed temps are over what the thermistor is reporting

and been said this morning that the bed is too large to use autotune
the other problem is that after I attempted to print
the part from this page 110 of the manual after I got a useable PPK fan holder printed (seen on page 2 of my build thread) after i adjust ed the end stop on the Gamma tower and switched to using paper .07mm thick from .12mm thick
the tower homed after I hit print (after I used my heat gun to careful raise the bed temp to 80 so printing would start. which was what i had to do to do the peek fan housing to start.)
Highcooley's Onyx Bed Leveling Aid is a great one to test your calibration. Highly recommended. If you can print it perfectly you've "arrived".

then it dived to a spot just between the Alpha tower and the gamma tower about 5 inches above the bed and made stuttering sounds before I turned off the printer

so I went the simple circles 6mm high from page 110 http://forum.seemecnc.com/download/file.php?id=8210

and did a tower cal and a reset z hight and tried to print this time it went to a spot about 4 or 5 inch above the bed again near the Alpha tower and started to air print

so i shut down the printer and restarted it and rebooted the macbook pro I am using to drive the mater control i redid the clear memory and reinstall from page 10 and 12 the “Repetier.ino”
and redid tower cal and set for the z hight and tried the 6mm circle again and once again it went to AirPrint in the same area near the alpha tower

after it all being shut down over night I am trying to heat the bed again and once again when 80c is commanded the max it gets to is 73 then it drops to 67 and inches back to 72 or 73 a nd aoccelates between the two



the effector homed and once again started to air print the 6mm high small circle near the alpha tower even this on the MC screen it is properly seen as centered on the build plate
On Dec 28, 2015, at 11:32 AM, JJ Johnson (SeeMeCNC Support Desk) <[email protected]> wrote:

##- Please type your reply above this line -##
Your request (118403) has been updated. To add additional comments, reply to this email.

JJ Johnson
JJ Johnson (SeeMeCNC Support Desk)
Dec 28, 11:32 AM

If you are having problems with the display, lets first confirm that the cables are installed correctly.

What is the color of the LCD Controller board? Red or White?

If the board is White

When looking at the RAMBO board in the machine the red stripe for the ribbon cables (when attached to the LCD adapter, which is attached to the board) should be on the right hand side for both cables. Please Confirm.

The B ribbon cable should be attached to the bottom of the LCD Adapter - and on the LCD panel it is closest to the SD card reader
The A ribbon cable should be attached to the top of the LCD Adapter - and on the LCD panel it is furthest from the SD card reader

If the board is red

When looking at the RAMBO board in the machine the red stripe for the ribbon cables (when attached to the LCD adapter, which is attached to the board) should be on the left hand side for both cables. Please Confirm.

The B ribbon cable should be attached to the bottom of the LCD Adapter - and on the LCD panel it is closest to the SD card reader
The A ribbon cable should be attached to the top of the LCD Adapter - and on the LCD panel it is furthest from the SD card reader

JJ
SeeMeCNC

[Windshadow]

since the build is done except for printing the layer fan should I move the current problems to the troubleshooting forum?

in addition to the bed heating problems....
i can no longer print since I attempted the Highcooley's Onyx Bed Leveling Aid as any print command even if it is supposed to be within 25mm of the centre of the build plate starts about an inch above the build plate and over near the Alpha tower I have shut down and restarted both the printer and the computer I think something must have scrambled the eeprom data the tower home macro still works though and starts to the center and goes out to its spots close to the bed.

[Eaglezsoar]

Yes, WindShadow, you should move your new questions to the troubleshooting sub-forum.
I hope you get the problems worked out soon so you can start doing what you payed for- Printing!

[Windshadow]

thanks Eaglzsoar I created 2 threads in troubleshooting

this one for my bed heating problem http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=9550 THIS ONE IS SOLVED the PS was set from the factory at 220 and I never checked its slide switch reset to 115 and the heaters now work normally .

and this one for the MC air printing problem
http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=9551
I found some old threads for the air printing and I will try a few things tomorrow I think there look to be some problems with the macintosh OS X version of MC 1.4.0.5454 and I will try the clear cache i found on the version window perhaps that will restore function and I will be able to print again.

for the bed heater I guess the next step is to take the bed apart so I can check the voltage when is is commanded to heat at the pads under it... they are well covered with kapton so I can't do it with out taking it apart... that should tell me if the problem is in my wiring or in the PS

either way its going to set back printing for a while. and the new threads aren't getting as much attention as this one did do you have anything else I can try ?
JJ did not respond to my email until today and he had a very good reason he had an operation to remove his appendix GET WELL SOON J J!!