Initial squiggling in first printed layer

[rymnd]

Hi, recently I've been seeing this error where the initial printed paths are squiggles instead of straight lines. This happens regardless of the slicer used, and only at the beginning of the initial layer. I then never see this problem in any of the ensuing layers. Has anyone else seen anything similar?

Thanks!

[bubbasnow]

in kisslicer make sure grid is disabled
in slic3r make sure raft is set = 0

then watch in your gcode simulator to ensure that the first layer is a perimeters and infill path

[rymnd]

in kisslicer make sure grid is disabled
in slic3r make sure raft is set = 0

then watch in your gcode simulator to ensure that the first layer is a perimeters and infill path

Thanks for the quick response!

Nothing seems wrong in my gcode preview. I don't see any reason why the slicer would be causing this, regardless of the errors. Have you seen something similar to this before?

Thanks again!

[Eaglezsoar]

I am curious how your slicer is set up.
I see no skirt, I see no brim. Which makes me wonder how the rest of your slicer is set up.

[bubbasnow]

I am curious how your slicer is set up.
I see no skirt, I see no brim. Which makes me wonder how the rest of your slicer is set up.

yea thats why i was thinking raft

[rymnd]

I am curious how your slicer is set up.
I see no skirt, I see no brim. Which makes me wonder how the rest of your slicer is set up.

yea thats why i was thinking raft

You and Eaglesoarz are right. The picture shows the beginning of the raft, but even w/o raft, I still occasionally see that initial squiggle right as the print starts. It doesn't affect most prints, especially if I use rafts, but if it's a hardware issue as opposed to software, then I'd rather fix it if possible.

I've seen this in paths generated by both Cura and Kisslicer.

Curious, why do the two of you think it's due to the slicer?

Thanks!

[bubbasnow]

well, let dive into this a little bit more, give us all the details.

printer version?
material?
temps?
version of firmware?
any upgrades you might have had?
have you ever gotten a good print?
is it because of the size of print? ie only outside a certain radius from center?
are these files from thingiverse or something you made?
how was your test cube?
ssn?
bank account# ?

you get my point

[rymnd]

well, let dive into this a little bit more, give us all the details.

printer version?
material?
temps?
version of firmware?
any upgrades you might have had?
have you ever gotten a good print?
is it because of the size of print? ie only outside a certain radius from center?
are these files from thingiverse or something you made?
how was your test cube?
ssn?
bank account# ?

you get my point

haha, fair enough.

printer version: Rostock MAX
material: ABS (I've only ever printed in ABS)
temperature: 227-230 extruder, 85-90 bed temperature
print speed: 30 mm/s
firmware: latest Repetier firmware from Seemecnc (via Github)
upgrades: magnetic xnaron joints
print quality: generally fine. I can print the test pyramids and test cubes without any problems, as long as the first layer(s) print fine
slicers: Cura (14.01-14.03) and Kisslicer

- part is one that I made via Solidworks, but like I said, the g-code path previews don't show these wiggles, and I wouldn't expect them to, as they're part of the raft layers
- problem doesn't seem correlated to the object size. You see these squiggles always in the initial few passes. However, as you might be able to see in the attached picture, they seem isolated to an area in the print frame, so it's not like the squiggles/wiggling is isolated to the first few seconds of the print
- this error has been more prevalent since I started printing from SD card as opposed to over USB, though I'd think that using the SD card would lead to a more stable print
- the steady oscillation in those squiggles makes me think it might be an issue with the stepper motors or RAMPS board, and that would be my main concern. Maybe the initial acceleration/jerk during the start of the job is causing this?
- since it's only on the first layer, I also wonder if there could be a tear in one of the belts, but in that case, I would expect the path error to be more random

Honestly, unless this error pops up on later layers, it hasn't been a major issue, especially with multiple raft layers. I'm most troubled by the fact that I can't get it to repeatably reproduce the squiggles, and I can't seem to come up with a reasonable explanation for why it would happen.

Again, appreciate the help! I'll be sure to check back if I come across anything new on my end

[dtgriscom]

Is this a MAX v2? I just finished putting together the u-joints, arms and carrier, and when I leave it alone for a while and then start moving the Cheapskates the joints squeak for a while, and then stop. I'll bet that my printer would show your symptoms when completed.

[Eaglezsoar]

Is this a MAX v2? I just finished putting together the u-joints, arms and carrier, and when I leave it alone for a while and then start moving the Cheapskates the joints squeak for a while, and then stop. I'll bet that my printer would show your symptoms when completed.

rymnd is runnning the original Rostock Max with magnetic arms so has very little in common to the Arms on your V2.
I have read the discussion between you and Gene and I agree with Gene, you need to complete the assembly and calibration
then see how it prints. The stiffness and squeeks should be normal with the new configuration of the Arms and should
work themselves into a more quiet state. The stiffness you are experiencing should be there, any free play in the arms will
cause your prints to exhibit problems. You should be fine.

[dtgriscom]

rymnd is runnning the original Rostock Max with magnetic arms so has very little in common to the Arms on your V2.

Perhaps, and perhaps my Max won't show rymnd's problem. But, boy! does his problem look like sticktion that goes away after some joint movement.

I bet that if he edits his gcode to do "exercises" before he starts a print then the problem will go away. That may not be a final solution, but it would confirm my diagnosis.


Dan

[rymnd]

Figured out the cause of the squiggling, sort of. The squiggling in the pathing is produced when the hotend tip is too high above the build plate. For some reason, my printer starts off high and then somehow settles later.

So, at this point, it looks like an issue with my leveling and possibly my steppers/belt, as opposed to the slicer, arms, or joints.

Thanks to everyone who gave suggestions and insight!

EDIT: Added a photo of the squiggling error that I'm seeing, in case it helps others in the future. As you can see, the skirt shows the squiggling and is clearly raised above the build plate, whereas the inner path that outlines the part itself appears to be printing at the appropriate height.

[lordbinky]

I wish I could make it do that on purpose....

[geneb]

You can. Tape a PS2 Dual-Shock controller to the printer while it's running.

g.

[dtgriscom]

You can. Tape a PS2 Dual-Shock controller to the printer while it's running.

Available now: the dual-purpose Rostock MAX V3! It's a 3D printer AND it's a seismograph!

[Eaglezsoar]

You can. Tape a PS2 Dual-Shock controller to the printer while it's running.

Available now: the dual-purpose Rostock MAX V3! It's a 3D printer AND it's a seismograph!

California could use a bunch of those!