Pink PLA troubleshooting

[mhackney]

So, I recently purchased a pink PLA from a vendor that I've had good success with. I have had nothing but difficulty with this material not sticking on the first layer. It's almost laughable given that I have 16 spools of PLA (not to mention another 20 spools of ABS and "exotics" like Laywood, Ninjaflex, Taulman nylon both types, T-glasse, and water and limonene soluble support filaments and a few others) and I can print with all of these on almost any of my "go to" bed surfaces. So, to collect reliable data I did a series of tests. For each of these tests, I first printed with a red PLA to verify that the combination would stick. In all cases, the red PLA stuck fine to these treatments. Here's what I did:

• glass cleaned with acetone @ 60°C & 80°C - no stick - decreased Z by .05mm until touching glass
• glass cleaned and sprayed with white glue solution (10-1) @60°C & 80°C - no stick
• glass cleaned and sprayed with Garnier Super Hold (level 5) hairspray @60°C & 80°C - no stick
• 3M blue tape cleaned with acetone @room temp, 60°C & 80°C - no stick
• 3M blue tape cleaned with isopropyl alcohol @room temp, 60°C & 80°C - no stick
• glass cleaned and Elmer's glue stick @room temp, 60°C & 80°C - no stick
• glass with Kaptan tape @room temp, 60°C & 80°C - no stick
• glass with typing paper (my newest go-to surface) @room temp, 60°C & 80°C - no stick

And, for each of these I extruded at 180° and 195°C. I think this was pretty systematic and it was amazing how the pink PLA literally would just peal up behind the nozzle. In some cases, the first perimeter would stay slightly attached but when the 2nd perimeter was layed down, it would detach.

I have contacted the vendor asking for a refund (they did not reply to a previous email I sent over the weekend). They have been a reliable vendor in the past so I don't want to call them out yet until they've had a chance to reply. But, I thought I would ask if anyone here has run into anything like this? Also, I am happy to send 10meters to anyone in the US who would be willing to try to print this stuff. I love the color, that's why I got it, but it is currently worthless. If you'd like a sample, PM my your address and I'll mail it out.

I have tested another pink PLA from another vendor and it prints wonderfully, almost like butter. So I do have a back up plan.

Regards,
Michael

[DavidF]

Try plain old masking tape, not the blue, and scrape the surface of it with a razor blade to remove the wax layer and raise some hairs or the paper up.....ill take you up on the 10 meters.....did you get your colorfabb filament yet???

[mhackney]

PM me your address David. No, the colorfabb stuff has not arrived yet. We got like 15" of snow today, I don't think the post office delivered!

I'll try masking tape. I should say that I did try sanding the blue tape with 400 grit but not part of this series of controlled tests. I have a roll of masking tape in my hand ready to try.

[mhackney]

David, the masking tape was a fail:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v1 ... 4613-3.jpg[/img]

This was 1" 3M masking tape on a 60°C bed. I scraped the surface with a single edge razor blade to remove the glaze and rough it up. Better than most but failed on the 2nd perimeter. I also then tried cleaning the tape with acetone and that failed too.

This stuff is possessed!

[DavidF]

If it doesn't stick to sanded masking tape, something is very wrong.....just have to make sure all that wax layer is gone...that's why I like the razor blade trick...
Oh, one time I printed on double sided tape..mixed results on that one...

Hmm, just saw the tape failed... Not sure what to say now. Pull off some from the spool and see if it gets better deeper in??

[mhackney]

Yes, "something is very wrong"

Seriously, I *think* I know what I'm doing, I have lots of experience, I have tried every surface I know and this stuff just peels off.

I'm in about 40 meters. That should be far enough I think. I stripped 20 meters off once I started having problems.

I wonder if maybe it has silicone on it, maybe was used in the factory. I might try to clean a few meters with acetone and try that. I'll send your 10 meters tomorrow uncleaned so you can experience the joy that's been mine for the last week!

cheers,
Michael

[DavidF]

Can't wait to try it, I love fighting things that don't want to work....then again I'm not quite sane either

[mhackney]

I took 10' of filament cut from the spool and washed it in hot soapy water and rinsed well. Then washed with Formula 409 - the recommended way to clean off silicone residue. Then I cleaned one more time with isopropyl alcohol on a clean rag.

I then printed on blue tape cleaned with acetone. I was able to get a part to print but just barely. This is Xnaron's 10x20x10 single wall cube. The corners pealed on the first layer. I was printing at 180°C - the temp I determined was the best for this filament. So, I ran another test going to 205°C. This was no better, the first layers completely peel/curl from the tape. They adhere just enough to get the layer down so upper layers can be printed. After 50 layers (100 layers total) the part broke free on a retract.

So, I think there is some sort of contaminant on this filament, maybe silicone. It is not practical to clean the entire roll so it really is not suitable to use.

[DavidF]

could it be there is too much color fill in it??
One last thing that may help, cut some small grid work into the tape with the razor blade. Still though, shouldnt have to go thru this much trouble to get a first layer to stick....

[Eaglezsoar]

could it be there is too much color fill in it??
One last thing that may help, cut some small grid work into the tape with the razor blade. Still though, shouldnt have to go thru this much trouble to get a first layer to stick....

After all Michael has done and all the time spent it's probably time to trash it and keep an entry somewhere of who the vendor was and never buy that color from them again.
He's bought other colors from the same vendor and they are fine. I would pursue getting a spool of another color for free from that vendor.

[mhackney]

That's what I'm working on. They've been very slow to respond. I'll try to track down a phone # for them tomorrow.

[DavidF]

could it be there is too much color fill in it??
One last thing that may help, cut some small grid work into the tape with the razor blade. Still though, shouldnt have to go thru this much trouble to get a first layer to stick....

After all Michael has done and all the time spent it's probably time to trash it and keep an entry somewhere of who the vendor was and never buy that color from them again.
He's bought other colors from the same vendor and they are fine. I would pursue getting a spool of another color for free from that vendor.

Your right, sometimes I just don't know when to say "when"

[Eaglezsoar]

I don't think that it is that you don't know when to say when, I think you are like a lot of us, you refuse to accept defeat and you enjoy a challenge.

[DavidF]

I don't think that it is that you don't know when to say when, I think you are like a lot of us, you refuse to accept defeat and you enjoy a challenge.

That's pretty much it, but sometimes ill beat a dead horse to death too..

[mhackney]

Got a reply from the vendor. He's refunding me and no need to send it back. Can't beat that. He's also planning to test some other spools of pink. I told him if he finds one that sticks to send it to me!

[Eaglezsoar]

Got a reply from the vendor. He's refunding me and no need to send it back. Can't beat that. He's also planning to test some other spools of pink. I told him if he finds one that sticks to send it to me!

Sounds as though you have found a good vendor there. He needs a little work in how quickly he replies but at least he finally replied.

[mhackney]

In his defense, he did say he replied after my email on Sunday. I can't find it but email is not perfect and I get 200-300 emails a day and sometimes accidentally move or delete things on my iPhone. I have no reason to doubt him. It pays to follow up!

[DavidF]

Sounds like a good vender to me....so who are they? Or is that one of those things one shouldn't post??

[mhackney]

I'll mail it with the sample. I am a believer that a vendor that makes good does not need to be publicly called out. It's the way I roll! There is nothing visible about this filament that says "I won't print". In fact, it is a beautiful looking material.

[DavidF]

I wasn't looking to call him out in a bad way, he made good and thats what I like to hear. You had good luck with his other filaments, and I'm looking to try some different ones to get a better understanding of how they act. I've been happy with the filaments I have used but haven't tried many at all. I'm just now getting the hang of printing and beginning to see the print and how slight changes effect the prints.
One day I hope to get more into the programming end, but I'm like water when it comes to electronics LOL.. for now ill just stick to the mechanical end of things....

[Eaglezsoar]

I'll mail it with the sample. I am a believer that a vendor that makes good does not need to be publicly called out. It's the way I roll! There is nothing visible about this filament that says "I won't print". In fact, it is a beautiful looking material.

It's called ethics and I have known for years that Michael has it in abundance.

[geneb]

What kills me is that stuff wouldn't stick to acetone-cleaned blue tape. I tried that. ONCE. The part I printed STILL has blue tape on the bottom of it. I'd have to hit it with a sander to get it off of it. If it won't stick to THAT, there's something seriously wrong with that material.

g.

[mhackney]

Agreed! Acetone washed blue tape will stick to anything - but not this pink PLA!

[DavidF]

Looking forward to getting a sample to see what non stick filament is like, as rediculous as that sounds LOL....
So what would cause filament not to stick anyways? Must be something with the mix, everthing else has been pretty much ruled out...

[mhackney]

I suspect silicone contaminant on or in the filament.