Is the MAX the printer for me?

[A Future Pilot]

I work with High School students and we're planning on 3D printing a wing for an RC aviation competition. (Not sure if we'll be printing the wing in sections, or just the ribs, or what...the students will be designing it.) So basically we're going to need a very precise printer for airflow and such.

We're actually mechanics at an airport, so we know our way around mechanical and electrical things, so building it isn't an issue, but it seems that the MAX may take a lot of modding to get it to really work well. Is that true?

I chose it because it's right at our price point ($1,000) and it has the largest area and smallest possible layer size of any printer I've found so far. So do y'all think it'll work for us?

Thanks!

[Eaglezsoar]

I think it would work fine for you. As far as modding is concerned, the one mod I would definitely recommend
is to replace the arms with those from Trick Laser, or the magnetic arms from Xnaron. The next mod would be
to mount the spool on top using a kit from SeemeCNC, it's possible the kits are shipping with that mod, I am not
sure. The Rostock Max offers a huge build area, good documentation and would serve your purposes well.

[lordbinky]

The stock rostock is great. My personal opinion that all the upgrades for the rostock that affect the print fall into either adding functions (safely printing nylon) or increasing the tolerances of your configuration and settings for a good print result. It's nothing you can't make up for with time effort, just some mods like the arms as Eaglezsoar mentioned save you a-lot of time if you don't NAIL some of the most tight tolerance parts like sanding the arm connections. Other than that you just need to zero in on your calibration and settings and you'll be fine.

If you want to consider Nylon look into an all-metal hotend such as the E3D, that one may not be an suitable choice with their present delay.

As for your filament of choice I would suggest strongly considering ABS, the ability for you to do finishing on the part with acetone as an alternative to sanding could be very useful for your intended parts.

[A Future Pilot]

Ok, thank y'all!!

Which is better, the magnet arms or the trick laser ones?

And Nylon sounds like it would be great! I've also heard I may need a better power supply and/or some fans (I would assume I would need the fans if using Nylon as well.) Is that true?

Also, which E3D hotend would I need? I really know very little about 3d printing and such, so this is gonna be a big learning experience Is there any "introduction to 3D printers" sort of thing I should read to get acquainted with all the ends and outs and terms?

Thanks again!

[geneb]

If you're going for an arm replacement, I would recommend buying the pre-assembled Trick Laser arms. They're very good.

I would stick with the stock hot end for now - it works equally well for ABS and PLA. Printing with PLA requires the use of a fan on the cold section of the hot end, which is supplied in the kit.

The top mounted extruder that Eaglezsoar mentions is now shipped with the kit as standard (the side mounted extruder is not provided in the kit any longer). Also, with kits shipping from 8/11/13, they're including the 300mm borosilicate glass build plate.

I wrote the assembly manual, so if you have any questions or you think a section could be made more clear, please let me know!

g.

[Eaglezsoar]

The Trick Laser arms are an excellent upgrade over the original arms but the magnetic arms would not be that difficult to create and the
huge advantage over the Trick Laser arms is that the effector can come off quite quickly making changing hot ends etc much easier to change
or work on. The link to the magnetic arms is here: http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php ... lit=magnet

You will need to print some parts to create the magnetic arms if you go that route. I personally went with the Trick Laser arms and I intend to
switch to the magnetic arms as soon as I can.

[JohnStack]

I'm familiar with the competition I think http://www.kiae.org/

For this, yes, I think the Rostock would work; however, I think you are asking:

1) Can the students build it? The answer is yes. I helped a 14-year old boy and his father. The young man was very adept at most of the things. Knowing electronics is not a requirement, following directions is. Soldering is not a significant portion of the build.

2) Is it appropriate in the overall scope of your project in terms of time investment? You've probably already made the decision to get a 3D printer. It would help students understand what it takes w/rt the design/RD lifecycle - so I personally think it's worthy. There were several students in the MIT Science Fair competition a couple of years back who were building them with their parents and in previous years, talking about them. As physics students, they were strongly considering purchasing them at the time.

3) The build platform is quite suitable and the aftermarket mods are minimal in terms of both investment and time. In fact, buying the tricklaser arms simultaneously with your purchase would reduce the build time by at least an hour - and then coupled with the benefits, an excellent ROI.

4) I don't know how many are on your team but the division of labor will be the interesting part. You could split it up - electronics; base; wiring; and simultaneously, modeling and learning about Repetier and Kisslicer.

5) Someone with a Rostock in your area should help or at least come over right after you get the printer calibrated....

6) At least for the Rostock, print with ABS until you really know what you're doing....

Contact me through this forum. I would be happy to donate via dropship from SeeMeCNC a spool of ABS to you. Pick a color that would be appropriate for your team.

[A Future Pilot]

Thank you all for your help!

I think we'll go with the Trick Laser arms to start with, and may end up printing/assembling the magnetic arms later on.

@JohnStack thank you very much! I'll be sending you a PM when we've raised the money and actually purchase the printer. And actually we're a member of the kiae

So that's the only mod y'all would suggest right off the bat? Also is there anyone on this forum anywhere near Tompkinsville, KY that could come out to maybe help calibrate or something?

Thanks again!!

[lordbinky]

I agree with Eaglezsoar again but I wanted to add a couple points to consider. If you have the tricklaser arms when you do you construct your Rostock, you get to skip the (I think) most trouble prone parts of the setup. If you go the 'build your own Magnetic Arms' route, unless you can source the printed parts or create them in another fashion, you still have to go through the joint sanding process of the stock arms. I'm sure among your mechanic friends you have access to equipment that make the magnetic arms a trivial item to make (really the worst part is precision cutting of the tubes).

There is also a good learning experience in the stock arms if the high school kids are part of the construction of the Rostock. Specifically, seeing multiple solutions to the same problem with the stock and magnetic arms, and the degree of trouble that can affect your precision from a part that appears so simple.

There are lots of options for this to be a great learning experience but without knowing the intended scope of your project or it's timeline, it's hard to not throw out crazy ideas.

As for your specific questions

Power supply: The stock power supply is fine, if you intended to throw lots of lights, fans, and add ons you might consider a beefier power supply, but for initial setup you're fine. The 24V power supply addition for the heated bed increases the speed at which it heats up, but that's just saving a handful of minutes with the stock hotbed and a glass plate. If you add in a metal plate under the glass for a heat spreader, it becomes more economical if you're frequently waiting as the heating time increases.

Fans: The small fan for the stock hotend is needed for reliability with PLA filament. Fans blowing on prints themselves can increase the quality of prints especially PLA, but this can also cause issues with ABS and Nylon and other materials that have a (relatively) high shrinkage that causes can curling when cooling. So application of fans for the prints are print/material specific.

Hotend: A backup hotend is useful since it's never fun to have the printer down for cleaning a hotend. It will at least be good juju for staving off Murphy’s law when if sniffs a time crunch. As for the E3D hotend, if you want to go with that one which the biggest downside is the wait right now, you would want bowden extrusion model and you can use the stock bowden tube with it. The other options are based on filament size so for consistency you would choose the 1.75mm size.

I don't know of anything specific to point you to that would be better than checking the forum or googling for any thoughts/questions/curiosities you have. Someone else likely does though

[JohnStack]

BTW, you got an excellent response from some of the top members of this forum. That's how we - and I believe that's a very strong "we" roll.