E3D V4 All metal hotend

[626Pilot]

Ooooh. What are your retract settings? I forgot but when I used "normal" settings (like 6-10mm) it would often jam during times of heavy retraction. I use 3.5-4mm now.

[McSlappy]

if you print that shroud oriented that way, the c clip will snap, and you'll likely snap the main body.

Print it the way it's oriented, and use support.

I know this because I tried

Oh, you mean to print it the way it will actually sit on the machine, with the c-clip at the top?

Ooooh. What are your retract settings? I forgot but when I used "normal" settings (like 6-10mm) it would often jam during times of heavy retraction. I use 3.5-4mm now.

On the old head I was using 6mm I think, this one I've not gone above 4, and currently it's on 1mm.

I think it happens alot with the e3d, but its more has to do with the filament. i keep the oily rag on all the time now, i just drip a couple of drops in at the installation of the roll and forget about it. better safe then sorry

It could be filament, and I suppose it's worth a shot, just to help troubleshoot it. I do need to come up with a nicer storage system for my PLA. I'll give the oil/rag a go and see how it goes. You have a photo of your setup?

[Eaglezsoar]

if you print that shroud oriented that way, the c clip will snap, and you'll likely snap the main body.

Print it the way it's oriented, and use support.

I know this because I tried

When I open the file you posted it is oriented the way McSlappy tried to print it.
Are you saying to rotate it so that the c-clip is at the top?

[mhackney]

Just a little confused by this:

"With the large fan running on the open door I have had no skipping.
I just turned off the large fan and closed the door, I'll see what happens in a few minutes."

and then you report problems. Did these occur with the RAMBo fan on or off? Once hot, you should cool the RAMBO for a few minutes then leave the fan on.

Since I've had a fan on my RAMBo I've not had a single skip/stall and I've printed nearly 100 parts in at least 10 different PLA filaments.

[cope413]

Weird, I guess it was oriented differently when I posted it in the forum. It's oriented the way it should print on Thingiverse. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:257188

[Cleveralias]

McSlappy: I was having a problem that sounds like yours a while back with the E3D v4. For me the problem was poor alignment of the heat break and the aluminum upper piece creating a lip that increased friction as filament pushed past it. My best guess is that the warm, gummy, slightly expanded PLA would get jammed up with retraction. My prints would end up very sparse like yours and when I would inspect it after a print I never once found an actual plug. It was very frustrating.

I would suggest to make sure the the whole filament path is clean and then pass filament through with the extruder cold to feel for lips or anywhere the filament might be catching. If you take the nozzle off hold the hot end up to light you may be able to see any misalignment in the parts. Also confirm the heat break hasn't bent at the constriction. Sanjay will take care of you if your problem is related to machining.

[Eaglezsoar]

Weird, I guess it was oriented differently when I posted it in the forum. It's oriented the way it should print on Thingiverse. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:257188

Yes, that one is right. The c-clip goes to the bottom. Now I understand why support needs to be on.

[McSlappy]

Just a little confused by this:

"With the large fan running on the open door I have had no skipping.
I just turned off the large fan and closed the door, I'll see what happens in a few minutes."

and then you report problems. Did these occur with the RAMBo fan on or off? Once hot, you should cool the RAMBO for a few minutes then leave the fan on.

Since I've had a fan on my RAMBo I've not had a single skip/stall and I've printed nearly 100 parts in at least 10 different PLA filaments.

Sorry, I wasn't that clear. I ran the print for about 15 minutes then took the fan away. It started stripping the filament not long after. I put the fan back on, but was unable to get it to run nicely again.
- Just to confirm it was a PLA problem, I switched to ABS and ran a perfect print of the e3d shroud with clip (I'll end up using this one).
I removed ABS and switched back to PLA and with the big fan in place I ran the print. It didn't skip once, and produced an ok print (need to get the retract dialed in).
- I thought I'd just hit print again after it was done to see whether it could print PLA again. Not even able to do the first layer (the big fan is still running), in fact I can't even extrude into air.
- I've had the machine off for a while, but left the fan on and the door open to cool it down. I'm about to run the same PLA print again and see whether it will work now.
- No good. Even with this huge fan blowing at full speed onto the RAMBO it's still stripping the filament. Which makes sense, since the extruder doesn't seem to have any trouble turning, the teeth are just stripping the filament surface.

*Cleveralias, I've read back through this thread and this has been the one thing I've wondered. I've avoided pulling the head apart because it's messy and I liked my nicely zip-tied wiring Oh well. I think that I'm going to have to do this as I've run out of other ideas.

[mhackney]

Ok, that sounds like you might have a couple of issues working together against you!

If you are not able to extrude at all when restarting (and did you try pushing the filament by hand to verify it was "stuck"?) that indicates you probably have a plug in the hot end or nozzle. Most likely the hot end though.

I am still unclear - you just tried again you say. Did you figure out what the stoppage was from above and fix that before trying again? I.E. could you extrude into air before restarting? This symptom you describe of the extruder just stripping the filament is most likely due to a plug/blockage in the hot end. Unfortunately, the only way to clear these are to disassemble the hot end and remove all the crap in there, clean out and reassemble. If you are not able to extrude into air, then that is the problem.

[Eaglezsoar]

Why are we seeing all these PLA and E3D problems?

[Eaglezsoar]

Just a little confused by this:

"With the large fan running on the open door I have had no skipping.
I just turned off the large fan and closed the door, I'll see what happens in a few minutes."

and then you report problems. Did these occur with the RAMBo fan on or off? Once hot, you should cool the RAMBO for a few minutes then leave the fan on.

Since I've had a fan on my RAMBo I've not had a single skip/stall and I've printed nearly 100 parts in at least 10 different PLA filaments.

Sorry, I wasn't that clear. I ran the print for about 15 minutes then took the fan away. It started stripping the filament not long after. I put the fan back on, but was unable to get it to run nicely again.
- Just to confirm it was a PLA problem, I switched to ABS and ran a perfect print of the e3d shroud with clip (I'll end up using this one).
I removed ABS and switched back to PLA and with the big fan in place I ran the print. It didn't skip once, and produced an ok print (need to get the retract dialed in).
- I thought I'd just hit print again after it was done to see whether it could print PLA again. Not even able to do the first layer (the big fan is still running), in fact I can't even extrude into air.
- I've had the machine off for a while, but left the fan on and the door open to cool it down. I'm about to run the same PLA print again and see whether it will work now.
- No good. Even with this huge fan blowing at full speed onto the RAMBO it's still stripping the filament. Which makes sense, since the extruder doesn't seem to have any trouble turning, the teeth are just stripping the filament surface.

*Cleveralias, I've read back through this thread and this has been the one thing I've wondered. I've avoided pulling the head apart because it's messy and I liked my nicely zip-tied wiring Oh well. I think that I'm going to have to do this as I've run out of other ideas.

There have been users who have snapped off the nozzles or the heat break tubes, I recommend taking the E3D to 300c before trying to take off the nozzle.
Why 300c ? That is the temperature you used to tighten everything when you installed it as long as you followed the instructions.
Just be careful, you can get badly burned.

[cope413]

Why are we seeing all these PLA and E3D problems?

After recently purchasing my 3rd E3D, and having no issues with them - I gotta believe it's user error. I don't mean that as a shot to anyone negatively, just putting it out there.

With as many variables as there are in play with our machines, it's easy to overlook something that seems innocuous, but is actually important.

[mhackney]

I don't think there are that many problems actually. The E3D REQUIRES a cold end fan and if that is not set up correctly, plugging will occur. I've not had a single problem related to hot end plugging with the E3D. I didn't experience any issues until i started running production runs of my tenkara line spool. Running 12+ hours a session printing continuously I experienced what originally appeared as skipped steps. But even from the get-go I thought the behavior - that the extruder actually reversed momentarily - was odd and not normal steeper stalling from my experience. I measured the temps of the stepper drivers with an infrared thermometer that showed they were running hot. Once diagnosed, a fan keeps the drivers cool and all is well and I've been running 12+ hour production runs with nary a problem.

So, here are a few points for setting up an E3D:

1. best to use the V5 or later
2. make sure to set it up according to the instructions - i.e. tighten the nozzle to the heat break at 300°C
3. make sure you have the fan shroud installed and always turn the fan on before heating the hot end and allow the hot end to cool to 50°C before turning it off. The stock fan works well but I like cope413's shroud for the Rostock
4. make sure the current setting on the Rambo is set high enough. I run mine at "220". If it's too low, your stepper may skip steps
5. make sure the PTFE tube is seated in the Bowden/hotend properly.
6. make sure your RAMBo board stays cool - particularly the stepper drivers (they are the small square chips next to each of the stepper motor connectors). A fan on the RAMBo is probably not a bad idea.

[mhackney]

+1 cope413

It is complex system and everything has to work properly to get great results.

Eagle - I do remove my nozzles at 200°C rather than 300°. I haven't had any problem loosening them up at that temp - but ALWAYS use a crescent wrench on the hot end block. I use a 7mm socket driver on a handle, it holds the hot nozzle when it comes off whereas a wrench would allow the nozzle to fall. I am now in the habit of installing at 300°C and haven't had any problems. I switch between the .4 and .7mm nozzles fairly regularly.

cheers,
Michael

[Eaglezsoar]

+1 cope413

It is complex system and everything has to work properly to get great results.

Eagle - I do remove my nozzles at 200°C rather than 300°. I haven't had any problem loosening them up at that temp - but ALWAYS use a crescent wrench on the hot end block. I use a 7mm socket driver on a handle, it holds the hot nozzle when it comes off whereas a wrench would allow the nozzle to fall. I am now in the habit of installing at 300°C and haven't had any problems. I switch between the .4 and .7mm nozzles fairly regularly.

cheers,
Michael

Then if I tell users 200c rather than 300c that should be okay. I will go with your experience every time. I do know of one user who snapped the nozzle but he was doing it to a
cold E3D then blames the E3D for being faulty.

[mhackney]

There should be NO torque on the hot break when removing or installing a nozzle. You must hold the hot end block with a crescent or regular wrench. Then install the assembly on the cold end. When removing, the heat break may be more vulnerable but I remove the cold end from the hot end/nozzle/heat break first. Just don't apply any lateral stress and thins should be fine.

[Eaglezsoar]

There should be NO torque on the hot break when removing or installing a nozzle. You must hold the hot end block with a crescent or regular wrench. Then install the assembly on the cold end. When removing, the heat break may be more vulnerable but I remove the cold end from the hot end/nozzle/heat break first. Just don't apply any lateral stress and thins should be fine.

Okay, I understand. Thanks!

[McSlappy]

After recently purchasing my 3rd E3D, and having no issues with them - I gotta believe it's user error. I don't mean that as a shot to anyone negatively, just putting it out there.

With as many variables as there are in play with our machines, it's easy to overlook something that seems innocuous, but is actually important.

I'm beginning to feel like it is operator error, but I've yet to see what I'm doing wrong. I'm uninstalling the head now, and checking for plugs or misalignment. I suppose the truth of the problem will become clear soon.

*edit. It also gives me a chance to install the nice c-clip fan shroud.

[mhackney]

McSlappy, what is the answer to the question "Can you extrude into air now?"

[McSlappy]

Before any print, I usually extrude into the air first - to get things running. Mostly I've been able to extrude into the air quite fine, but after the last PLA print, I was not even able to do that.
I would agree that it seems very much like a blockage. Though I can switch to ABS and have no troubles at all.

The e3d is just cooling now that I've loosened the nozzle and I'm preparing to remove it and check out the internals.

[McSlappy]

So I completely tore the hot-end down. Cleaned it all out, soaked it in Acetone and carefully reassembled... I did find some junk in the nozzle, but it was unclear whether it was a byproduct of my cleaning process or a plug.

It's printing now, having sat idle for a few minutes with PLA in the head - this is something I was unable to achieve prior to the teardown. I notice also that the filament has a more glossy appearance once extruded from the hot-end.
I will reserve complete judgement until after a few more uninterrupted prints, but it looks promising.

*EDIT
... ooooor not. Got 90% through then started the same old filament stripping.

Well I think I'll sleep on it, maybe a couple of nights... Seems like that solves some people's problems, perhaps it'll solve mine. :/

[Eaglezsoar]

You were up very late judging from your last post. I sure hope it was worth staying up so late.

[McSlappy]

You're up later than me - you're in the USA, why are you still up?

*EDIT
Anyway, it didn't really work out... But i'm doing one last test before I give my sanity a break. Here's my over-the-top cooling setup which will eliminate cooling as an issue.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/qsmAETx.jpg?2[/img]

I've got some shielding to protect the heated bed from being cooled too fast, also had to turn the fan away while the hot end heated since I was sapping heat like crazy.

I'll probably model a shroud that fits the fan to the hot-end so that I don't have to use this chair anymore

Extruder is nice and cool now, and it's printing well... We'll see how it fares in an hour.

[Eaglezsoar]

My goodness, that is over the top and I couldn't help but chuckle. Be careful, that fan could blow your printer off the table.
In all seriousness I hope that you are able to resolve your problems. If your peek fan isn't doing a good enough job perhaps
you could look into swapping the present Peek fan with one that has a little more CFM output. Most fans have a CFM spec if
the seller bothers to post that info. If you go to Thingiverse and search on E3D you will find some shrouds that are designed
to accept a 40mm fan. If you printed one of those and match it with a high CFM fan it should significantly improve the cooling
on the E3D. Best to you.

[McSlappy]

Cheers mate. Yeah this setup made me laugh too

I don't think it's the peek fan - I'm aiming it at the extruder since that's what was getting hot. I do remember someone else mentioning an overheating extruder, so I might look back and find out their solution.

So far it's printing a gorgeous object with no issues at all. I've said it looks promising far too much and been disappointed, I'll see how we go. I'll update this with a status once it's done... Then I'm off for a day fishing, to unwind from this fun.