Z-Banding (or uneven layers, ridges in print, etc)

[0110-m-p]

I started this topic originally in the KISSlicer forums since it is something that I saw after switching slicers, but am still having trouble with this and was hoping to get some input here as well.

Check out the original thread here if you want the background...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... o86SEuZ17w

Anyway, here is the latest post I made on the kisslicer forum comparing the same part made with slic3r and kisslicer. Slic3r shows extremely little banding while kisslicer shows significant banding.

I have tweaked heated bed and hot end PID settings (now hold +/- 0.2-deg on the heated bed at 90C and +/- 1.5-deg on the hotend at 240C)

Here are two of the same parts with the same general settings. Both prints were made back to back with no tweaks to the printer itself. Settings: (can get detailed screenshots or gcode output tonight if needed)

- 0.20mm layers, 0.48mm extrusion width, 3 perimeters, 0.6mm skin, 40% rounded infill, 30 mm/s print speed (24 mm/s for perimeters), 90C bed, 240C hotend

Other than the banding, the kisslicer part is a million times better in pretty much every way possible. If I could just get rid of this (mostly) cosmetic issue, I would be really happy.

Original conversation is here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... o86SEuZ17w

Slic3r (left) vs KISSlicer (right)

[img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5604/157 ... cc4b_c.jpg[/img]

Slic3r (bottom) vs KISSlicer (top)

[img]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3952/155 ... e67b_c.jpg[/img]

I don't think it is an inherent problem with kisslicer since it works so much better than slic3r in every other way and the fact that others don't have this problem. I feel it is probably something wrong with the settings, but am scratching my head at this point. Any ideas?

Thanks.

[teoman]

Check arm joints. They may be sticking.

[0110-m-p]

Check arm joints. They may be sticking.

If it were mechanical I would expect to see the same behavior regardless of slicing software, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Also, I'm running Trick Laser carbon rod-end arms with anti-lash straps so I'm doubting it is the arms.

[Polygonhell]

KissSlicer and Slic3r compute the flowrate differently, you're probably slightly over extruding with KissSlicer, you should run a single wall calibration piece and adjust as necessary.

[0110-m-p]

KissSlicer and Slic3r compute the flowrate differently

Was not aware of that...I have the exact same settings for flow, extrusion width, and filament diameter. I'll recalibrate that tonight and see if it fixes anything. Thanks.

[0110-m-p]

Wall thickness of both 0.4mm and 0.5mm thin-walled cubes wasn't perfect (0.41 and 0.52 respectively), but didn't seem far enough off to cause such significant banding.

One way or another I tweaked my flow-rate in kisslicer to get the wall thickness correct and will be printing another part that regularly has banding issues tonight. If that small change in extrusion width fixes this issue outright I'll be surprised, but we shall see I guess....fingers crossed.

[0110-m-p]

So I adjusted my flow rates until my single wall object was exactly my specified extrusion width...resliced the object, printed, similar results this time except now with marginal line-line adhesion.

[img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5608/157 ... eb22_b.jpg[/img]

Definitely no over-extrusion here...need to bring the flow back up a bit.

[img]https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7494/157 ... e93c_b.jpg[/img]

[Polygonhell]

Your slightly under extruding there, but it wouldn't account for the banding.
Are you printing perimeters inside to out or viceversa, I'd try swapping that, and possibly look at the infill overlap.
I certainly don't see that sort of banding slicing with KissSlicer, but I'm still using the last released version, not the current beta.

[0110-m-p]

Your slightly under extruding there, but it wouldn't account for the banding.
Are you printing perimeters inside to out or viceversa, I'd try swapping that, and possibly look at the infill overlap.
I certainly don't see that sort of banding slicing with KissSlicer, but I'm still using the last released version, not the current beta.

I have tried both inside to outside and outside to inside and there is no difference.

My infill to perimeter overlap is currently set at 1.00 and is a setting I have never changed....maybe I should play with it a bit.

I may also go back to the latest release and try that rather than the beta.

[geneb]

That infill overlap seems pretty high to me. If memory serves I'm running parts with a .25 overlap.

g.

[0110-m-p]

That infill overlap seems pretty high to me. If memory serves I'm running parts with a .25 overlap.

g.

Moved the slider to 0.25 overlap and printed another sample (this time only one part)...check out the results below. Right now I have another printing in Cura just to see what happens.

[img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5611/157 ... 7ab8_b.jpg[/img]

[geneb]

The infill looks good but that banding is really weird.

Is that ABS or PLA?

g.

[0110-m-p]

The infill looks good but that banding is really weird.

Is that ABS or PLA?

g.

ABS (two brands and different colors)...haven't tested PLA or Nylon yet, but expect the same results.

Like I said previously...I'm extremely happy with everything about KISSlicer so far except the banding. You can see more pictures of some of my parts in both red IC3D ABS and black FilamentDirect ABS. http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=6747

I'll post up a screen shot of all my settings tonight along with my Cura results.

[0110-m-p]

Keeps coming back to KISSlicer as the point of error...either a setting or something else I just can't seem to figure out.

New Cura print vs. KISSlicer print from previous post...basically the same settings (including infill/perimeter overlap at 0.25)....hint, the one that looks better in each picture is the Cura print (2nd print ever in Cura)

[img]https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7524/15170665093_6d8f229161_b.jpg[/img]

[img]https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7516/15788235011_e81f76a343_b.jpg[/img]

[img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5612/15604940767_817c47999c_b.jpg[/img]

[img]https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7465/15604285129_d3e49155fb_b.jpg[/img]

Also...here are my current KISSlicer settings (click to enlarge)

[img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5616/15170345204_7c56c92202_o.png[/img]

[bdjohns1]

Gaps on perimeters: Your extrusion width parameter might be too big. My 0.4 nozzle usually gets set between 0.41-0.44mm, depending on the specific filament and how fast I'm printing.

The wavy patterns - is there any play in your hot end mount? If you push the tip of the hot end, is there any play in it? If so, it could be shifting slightly on you and getting moved around based on changing print directions.

Have you played around with speeds at all? I've been running at more like 80mm/sec. It would at least be an interesting exercise to see what happens to the wavy pattern at higher speeds.

[0110-m-p]

Gaps on perimeters: Your extrusion width parameter might be too big. My 0.4 nozzle usually gets set between 0.41-0.44mm, depending on the specific filament and how fast I'm printing.

The wavy patterns - is there any play in your hot end mount? If you push the tip of the hot end, is there any play in it? If so, it could be shifting slightly on you and getting moved around based on changing print directions.

Have you played around with speeds at all? I've been running at more like 80mm/sec. It would at least be an interesting exercise to see what happens to the wavy pattern at higher speeds.

Extrusion width is just an input that the slicer uses (someone please correct me if I'm wrong here). So if the printer is configured correctly based on extruder steps/mm, filament diameter, nozzle diameter, and extrusion multiplier it will put down whatever width extrusion I ask it to. So I should be able to set extrusion width to 0.44mm or 0.48mm or 0.5mm and would expect it to output that width correctly. I usually just set my extrusion width to be the same as free extrusion diameter.

I don't think the wavy pattern as anything to do with mechanical flaws in the printer. I haven't really played around with speeds much because ABS usually starts to warp on me about 35-40 mm/s and I have gotten good prints with other slicers at this speed.

Also just to further confirm that there isn't anything wrong with my printer mechanically, here is another excellent looking part with Cura vs. a previously printed part with KISSlicer.

[img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5607/15771936096_244a7a14d8_h.jpg[/img]

[img]https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7480/15793737601_e86e1cde2c_h.jpg[/img]

[img]https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7571/15610199308_40c555d0b5_h.jpg[/img]