Dremel End Effector?

[disneytoy]

Wondering if anyone has heard of using a Dremel, or a dremel off the end effector through a flex cord, mainly to cut 1/8 or 1/4" plexiglas? It could be run at a low mm per minute with a shallow cutting depth. There are a lot of uses for engraving or cutting out/drilling some plexiglas.

Thanks

Maxi

[lordbinky]

It's been brought up a few times. The lateral forces are the bane of configurations such the rostock max. You'd have to move it REALLY slow and REALLY shallow and you very well could pull it off. If you are using it with any frequency though, you're better off building a cnc router/mill or something. At least you can use your printer for parts towards that though!

[626Pilot]

I bought a Dremel and a flex shaft to try this but I haven't had time to figure out how to do the threading. I'm not sold on the flex shaft. It has to be held vertical, it doesn't like radiuses under 5", and I don't know how safe it is for this purpose. The instructions say NOT to use it for router bits because it isn't designed for that kind of stress.

If I do a mount I'll put it up on Thingiverse, but it'll just be for the Dremel tool itself. It is heavy and will require some cable management. I will mount it with the center of mass as close to the effector as possible. From trying to hold onto the effector while it's in motion, I know these steppers put out enough torque to break fingers. Dunno about how much punishment the belts will take, but I'm ditching them for fishing line as soon as I have time. (200 pound test, so I'm sure it will hold up.)

I did see a Dremel mount on Thingiverse but it was for a standard RepRap.

[geneb]

If you want a CNC machine, build one. The Rostock MAX is a 3D printer and is designed for those loads.

g.

[626Pilot]

I want to use it for defining traces on PCBs, and I'd use a drill press to do the holes and some tin snips for cutting out the finished boards. For that, it only has to go through a small amount of material, and it can be plenty slow because it still beats waiting a week for a fab to send me a prototype. I don't think it's the best choice for engraving wood or cutting through thick material. There are some ~$600 DIY CNC mills on Amazon and I'd probably pick up one of those if I wanted something I could use every day, or for "real" routing.

If I do this I'll also design a dust collection system.

[barry99705]

You could use a laser for this, and not have to worry about side loads.

[626Pilot]

I want a laser and I'm going to get one, but CO2 lasers are at the wrong wavelength to cut copper (it just bounces the light away) and the ones with the right wavelength are all $20,000 and up.

[disneytoy]

We all have Dremels. We can print the end effector mount. Why not? I'd like to cut 1/8-1/4" plexi. It can be slow and take many passes. I don't have a need for a $600+ CNC.

[Flateric]

It's not so much the many passes and the fact we all have one or the speed.

As the bit bites into the material the spinning motion of the cutting too along with the vibrations and sudden jarring affect of these loads is going to take a terrible toll on the precision of the delta printer.

You will be reducing the precision and lifespan of your print by immesurable amounts. It really is a very bad plan. As you own your printer over time you are going to notice the screws need retightening and snugging up now and then from the wood compressing and settling. I have litterally worn out parts of the wood frame of my printer just from using it as a 3d filament printer. Using the frame for cutting is not going to go well long term for your printer.

The delta design of the Rostock really shines with it high speeds and high accuracies which are achieved through the fact we always try to keep the effector as light in weight as we possible can so that you are not moving anything more than you have too. Even adding a direct drive extruder to the effector and doing away with the bowden tube, as some have done is really a bad plan. Your speed come way down and your accuracy gets really bad (in comparison to original) due to the added mass of the effectors weight.

Now imagine a vibrating and much heavier dremel or even a flexishaft in place of the nice lightweight original design. When you make the change to go back to the printer hotend version of your machine you will find it much harder to calibrate and get the same hgih end print quality each time you swap back and forth.

Even in industrial design milling delta's you will find that they are much much more rigid and expensive than a just as capable gantry or standard milling arrangement type milling product.

You will never see a pick and place industrial level machine than runs at high speeds and high accuracies be able to perform cutting operations as well. Sure it might be able to sling a dremel sized cutter around for a short bit. But it will no longer be acceptable for high speed pick and place operation in very short order.

The saying jack of all trades master of none, comes to mind.

The delta, is the master at speed and accuracy, the entire reason the delta style was explored and developed in the first place. The delta is fast becoming the master of print.

You ask to much of a machine not designed to move even 1/10th the loads and weights you are considering around.

Think on it. Try it if you like, but I would place an order for,

New belts, new pulleys, new carriages, new arms and all moving parts for the effector related parts, possibly new controller as well since your going to be driving the steppers much harder and hotter than they will like in the current design form factor. Even with just a flexi shaft.

May I suggest mastering you printer, then using it to print the components for a DIY miniture gantry style cutter with it.

Far better use of the intended design that your delta excels at!



My 2 cents.

[barry99705]

Just to give you guys an idea on what would work for the loads a router might put on a delta printer. Okay, maybe it's a little overkill....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7pc1B3rnMY[/youtube]

I don't think any of us would want something this big in our garage.

[gestalt73]

Here are two examples of what a delta type cnc setup may look like.

The first one, is far beefier than the rostock, all aluminum, and the guy only carved a bit of cork before he switched to a laser cutter.
(It sure is fun to watch though)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MOSnFSx8JQ[/youtube]

The second is actually a delta configuration, but uses six arms to affect rotation in the end effector. This one can CNC, but I think you get the idea.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS9oxp0mlw8[/youtube]

[geneb]

Understand that those machines aren't made of wood with glass-filled nylon arms.

If you guys insist on putting a spinning tool on a Rostock MAX, you're just going to make a mess. With subtractive manufacturing, it all boils down to the rigidity of the machine. The Rostock MAX isn't rigid enough to handle the side loads and vibration imparted by a cutting tool, no matter how slow you go and low shallowly you cut. Period.

g.

[626Pilot]

The second is actually a delta configuration, but uses six arms to affect rotation in the end effector. This one can CNC, but I think you get the idea.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDzUiZsbQtw[/youtube]

I think I'm in love.

[lordbinky]

I want to use it for defining traces on PCBs, and I'd use a drill press to do the holes and some tin snips for cutting out the finished boards. For that, it only has to go through a small amount of material, and it can be plenty slow because it still beats waiting a week for a fab to send me a prototype. I don't think it's the best choice for engraving wood or cutting through thick material. There are some ~$600 DIY CNC mills on Amazon and I'd probably pick up one of those if I wanted something I could use every day, or for "real" routing.

If I do this I'll also design a dust collection system.

If you're just using the regular copper clad circuit board, then forget the dremel and slap in a ultra fine tip sharpie into the effector to do traces and then acid etch the board.

[doctorgonzo]

I wanted to use a flex shaft setup to carve really, really light balsa and foam for model aircraft. Even with upgraded aluminum arms, it's still a bad idea? There will be virtually zero side loads as the material has such low density (under 4 lbs per cubic foot)...hmmm

[geneb]

Doctorgonzo, I would really, really recommend that you build yourself a table top machine dedicated to the purpose.

The results you get will pay off in the long run, because you'll be able to build a heavier, stiffer machine that will do an excellent job.

Check out http://www.cnczone.com - there's a number of good (and if memory serves, free!) plans for building table top CNC mills for doing PC boards and light woodworking.

g.

[doctorgonzo]

Geneb, I know you're right...I'll start saving my pennies. Spent all the 'play" money on the Rostock.

Thanks,

Doc

[barry99705]

Just for giggles, since this thread was brought up on another thread.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quN37YskoaM[/youtube]

[Captain Starfish]

Now THAT's how you do overkill.

Brilliant.

Although now I'll have nightmares of that thing creeping up on me when I'm asleep and going all Kanye West vs Pete Townshend on me: "I hear you like faces, so I'm gonna carve a face on your face so you can face the face".

[barry99705]

Now THAT's how you do overkill.

Brilliant.

Although now I'll have nightmares of that thing creeping up on me when I'm asleep and going all Kanye West vs Pete Townshend on me: "I hear you like faces, so I'm gonna carve a face on your face so you can face the face".

I really really wanted to build one of these guys, not the router, just the hexapod, until I looked into how much it would cost. My wife says I have too many expensive hobbies as it is, and I still haven't gotten a 3d printer...