Mhackney's Rostock Max

[mhackney]

Thanks for the clarification Polygonhell. I only have experience with Steve's extruder but I do know what you mean about slipping - especially on fast retracts. I've gotten into the habit of putting a black mark (Sharpie) on one of the extruder gears and a mark on the filament when I'm doing this kind of testing so I can make sure nothing is slipping.

Do you have the new nozzle? It really does seem to snag and drag more than the more "teet like" (sorry for the scientific term) earlier nozzle. It seems to string more too - although that could be a Bowden phenomenon also - this is my first printer with that feature.

I did find it satisfying though that changing the retract amount over a range of increments had a predictable effect on the size of the gap.

regards,
Michael

[mhackney]

I got the LCD Controller with my Rostock and RAMBo. I'm using the instructions and information that John posted: http://www.reprap.org/wiki/RamboLCD and the threads here (which I'll reference when I get to the configuration). The first thing I needed was a 2x4 and 2x10 header to solder the cut cables to and plug into the RAMBo. Rather than order just these, I decided to build them from 1x4 and 1x2 headers - I have LOTS of those! Here's the layout:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v83 ... 6868-4.jpg[/img]

I have 2 pins of overlap on the 2x10 header. I used a medium CA glue - it's easier to work with than the normal thin superglue. Here they are glued up and ready to solder:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v83 ... 7184-4.jpg[/img]

This is my project tonight.

[Polygonhell]

Do you have the new nozzle? It really does seem to snag and drag more than the more "teet like" (sorry for the scientific term) earlier nozzle. It seems to string more too - although that could be a Bowden phenomenon also - this is my first printer with that feature.

I did find it satisfying though that changing the retract amount over a range of increments had a predictable effect on the size of the gap.

regards,
Michael

I added myself to the list to get one sent out (it may be in my mailbox for all I know), but I'm currently using the original nozzle, it too had a lot of resistance to extrude FWIW, I run abut 0.3mm of Zlift@200mm/s, but for a single walled test print I'd disable that and probably retract as well. I find any delay at either end of a move increases the tendency for blobs/strings. Kisslicers wipe setting is really good for this, and it's smarter in general on when retract occurs (it wouldn't occur at all in that single wall test), but Slic3r has nothing equivalent.

FWIW I think you are doing the right thing, change one thing at a time, print calibration pieces and document.
I don't see the gap introduced by retract, but I haven't printed PLA in a while, I do have a couple of issues where if I have large retract the filament buckles at the exit from the rollers (solved with a printed piece) and if I print something with a LOT of retracts (10's of times per layer) I do see filament starvation, and in some cases extruder jams. The buckling issue doesn't happen with PLA, only softer plastics like ABS and worse still Nylon.

[mhackney]

I completed hooking up the LCD controller. One comment - the wiring connection diagram in the PDF file is based on looking down on the connector from the backside where you will solder the wires.

I used both of the ribbon cables and measured the distance from the RAMBo - through the center of the base - to the LCD Controller mount area between the Y and Z towers - as 24". So I cut the connectors off one end of each cable to leave 24". Then I split the individual wires back about 3".

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v79 ... 3424-3.jpg[/img]
(the look like hydra!)

I tinned each of the leads on the connectors and the wire ends. I also used a short (3/8") section of shrink tubing to insulate the connection after it was soldered. Pay careful attention to the wire chart. I soldered all of the leads on one ribbon in order first and then the other.

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v85 ... 3316-3.jpg[/img]


I tidied the connectors up with a couple of zip ties.

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v76 ... 3380-3.jpg[/img]

Then I turned off and unplugged my RAMBo and installed the cables. Again, pay attention to the photos. Note: the photos in the PDF are upside down! Make sure you get this right.

Once I had the connectors hooked up I plugged in the USB to the RAMBo and held my breath. I was greeted by this:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v76 ... 3240-3.jpg[/img]

I did not do anything special to the Repetier firmware from Halopend that I am using. I understand that it may not have the memory card reader enabled but I'll get there eventually.

All in all, the installation took about 30 minutes. I played around, homed, etc and everything seems to work fine.

I can imagine that lots of folks will customize the display and controls to do all sorts of cool things!

cheers,
Michael

[geneb]

I'll agree that the Steve's Extruder is an animal. About 3 hours into a PLA test print, the filament jammed (I suspect the PEEK hit the sweet spot temp for PLA and it was all over but the crying at that point) and because I was stupidly fiddling with the extruder tension and had it too high, the drive literally destroyed the metal teeth inside the push-fit connector. Tiny metal bits, etc.

Yet another lesson learned.
g.

[mhackney]

I choose to use the angled mounts for the controller. Not only do they put the display at a convenient angle to read but it makes getting an SD card in and out much easier!

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v72 ... 4326-3.jpg[/img]

[mhackney]

It seems that a number of us Rostockers have confronted problems with infills not reaching the perimeter of prints. I've been working through calibration in a systematic manner. As reported here earlier, I started with calibrating with a single wall thickness shell object. That allowed me to home in on extruder temperature, retract, Z Lift and a few other parameters. I can make some great looking shells now! And, when measured, they are dead-nuts on. That tells me there is minimal backlash in the system. I also measured backlash with a dial test indicator and it is negligible in all directions (being a delta printer I focused on movements to-from each of the X, Y and Z towers).

Now I've moved on to infill. I couldn't find a good calibration thing focused on infill. I wanted something quick to print, had long and short infill sections and could be easily rotated to test infill direction along a given cartesian axis. So, I designed my own - I call it "Z-Infill Calibration Thing" for obvious reasons (I'm working on a new version if this that has rounded corners on one arm).

Z-Infill Calibration Thing.stl

(3.01 KiB) Downloaded 648 times

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v67 ... 8316-4.jpg[/img]

This part was oriented top to bottom as Y and left to right as X on the build surface. As you can see, the infill foes not meet the perimeter in many places. So to test, I rotated the part 90° in slic3r and ran again. Here are the two parts side by side:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v75 ... 9098-4.jpg[/img]

Using a hotter nozzle (up to 230°C) improved things a bit, but still there were issues. When I look at the above it is a bit perplexing. The 3 perimeters are nice and tight all the way around. It also seems that the gaps are not consistently oriented in a single dimension. This coupled with the fact that the perimeters are accurate indicates to me that backlash is probably not the cause of the infill gaps. I have many more parts run at different temps and they all show similar issues. The one test that I just recognized I should do is run the part on the left in the photo above but with the infill turned 90° so the infill pattern will be the same as the right part but printed in a different orientation.

I tried to use KissSlicer but found that it wasn't "kiss" at all! I was not able to even get my extruder to work properly with it.

It is very possible that this is an artifact of either the slicer or firmware given the relative newness of delta printers. I would love to see some nicely filled parts (especially tests of this part) along with software chain used and slicer configuration.

Looks like I have a bit of work to do!

[JakeCShake]

Just an FYI...Barnett and I (my brother in-law) spent considerable time sanding the U- joints and have had very favorable prints. We spent maybe hours, sanding them so they were very free but no side-to-side problems. He has had great prints and MAYBE this is due to our efforts. kisslicer also contributed to a lot of our success. It's been awhile playing with the machine (at his house)..but those two, plus multiple calibrations, have seemed to work........calibration, calibration.....

[mhackney]

Thanks JakCShake, my U-joints are smooth as silk, lubed with lithium grease. Maybe some investigation on the carriages would be worthwhile though. My initial experience with kissslicer was not very good! I guess I need to give it more time.

[mhackney]

Here is the new calibration thing with rounded corners. I am printing a few test samples now with 90° infills and orientations.

Z-InfillCalibrationThing.stl

(7.7 KiB) Downloaded 630 times

EDIT: here's a little tip - in Repetier host you can specify a scaling factor. Scale this thing in Z to decrease the # of layers to print to 3. The current thing has 9 layers and you don't learn anything from printing all of those! You only need 3 to see what's going on. I am going to update the thing to make the STL file shorter but for now you can simply scale.

[mhackney]

I devised a series of tests to try to home in on the incomplete infill. The idea is to minimize movement associated with one tower/axis and make a print at 3 locations with the same part orientation and infill with respect to the tower. Here's the idea:

http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v80 ... 7748-4.jpg

I used a combination of slic3r and Repetier host settings to layout the thing to print.

After watching this thing print several dozen times and seeing the consistency of the infill gaps I am starting to lean towards a tight U joint somewhere. I'm hoping this experiment will help me predict which set of joints (by tower/axis).

It's been a little tricky printing these out at the perimeter of the hot bed. Partly due to the temperature out there being much lower so I am having sticking problems and also because of this gradient, the hot bed itself is warped with the center higher. I currently do not have a glass build surface since mine "blew up"! My borosilicate surface has been shipped. When it comes in I will put a layer of aluminum down to dissipate heat more evenly and hold the Onyx flat with the glass plate on top. I suspect that mine broke because of the Onyx warp and the glass being held very securely around its perimeter.

I'm doing the prints now.

[Polygonhell]

FWIW I just ran a print with Slic3r generated GCode (wanted to test a brim with Nylon), and my infill reaches the edges pretty much identical to my KISSlicer settings.
So I'm going to say the issue is either mechanical, or related to calibration.
On the calibration front If you're motion is convex, the rise towards the outside of the bed can cause the filament to not stick to the bed and the Hotend to pull it away from the side as it reverses direction.
On the mechanical side it took me a while to figure out where the UJoints were binding when I sanded mine, and I probably took off more than I needed to.

What layer height are you using, I just looked at the new nozzle that was shipped to me and it doesn't have a 0.5mm diameter hole, I'm assuming it's 0.35, which would mean you want to be printing with a layer height of 0.25mm or less.

[mhackney]

I'm printing .3mm layers with a .5mm nozzle. I've completed the 3 test prints and I am pretty sure it is mechanical and should be able to predict which tower is the culprit. The print at the Z tower is near perfect. At this position, the Z axis movement is much more limited along the line to the center of the bed but there is maximal "left to right" movement.

The Y axis print is the worse of the 3 with gaps that align with the line to the center of the bed.

The X axis print is a little worse than perfect, again in the direction to the center of the bed.

I'm off for a family function so I'll have to think about what this means and post photos!

[Eaglezsoar]

FWIW I just ran a print with Slic3r generated GCode (wanted to test a brim with Nylon), and my infill reaches the edges pretty much identical to my KISSlicer settings.
So I'm going to say the issue is either mechanical, or related to calibration.
On the calibration front If you're motion is convex, the rise towards the outside of the bed can cause the filament to not stick to the bed and the Hotend to pull it away from the side as it reverses direction.
On the mechanical side it took me a while to figure out where the UJoints were binding when I sanded mine, and I probably took off more than I needed to.

What layer height are you using, I just looked at the new nozzle that was shipped to me and it doesn't have a 0.5mm diameter hole, I'm assuming it's 0.35, which would mean you want to be printing with a layer height of 0.25mm or less.

This is something I often wondered about, can the .35mm hole be drilled out to .5mm without any detriments?

[Polygonhell]

This is something I often wondered about, can the .35mm hole be drilled out to .5mm without any detriments?

I don't see why not, I'd imagine the other dimensions are all the same.
FWIW I now believe the new nozzles are very close to 0.5mm, I measured the free air extrusion width at 0.8mm which is wide even for a 0.5mm nozzle, it implies a very short nozzle orifice.

[Eaglezsoar]

This is something I often wondered about, can the .35mm hole be drilled out to .5mm without any detriments?

I don't see why not, I'd imagine the other dimensions are all the same.
FWIW I now believe the new nozzles are very close to 0.5mm, I measured the free air extrusion width at 0.8mm which is wide even for a 0.5mm nozzle, it implies a very short nozzle orifice.

Thanks for the answer, I am going to try it.
On another note, I have been waiting to use your version of repetier firmware but I need to know if you've had the time to get the LCD to work.
You seem to be one of the most knowledgeable on this forum, that's why I've been waiting. Does it really make that much difference from Marlin to make all the changes to Repetier? The Pronterface
front end looks nice but I doubt if it will work with the repetier firmware.

[mhackney]

Read my posts a few back, polygonhell's repetier firmware does indeed support the LCD and the SD card reader.

[Eaglezsoar]

Read my posts a few back, polygonhell's repetier firmware does indeed support the LCD and the SD card reader.

This is confusing. I see where you showed how to hook up the LCD and you state you were using firmware from Halopend (sp), I assume the
Halopend firmware was created by polygonhell and everything works. There is too many subforums too keep track of.
Thanks for the help.

[mhackney]

I know it's difficult to follow an entire thread! I did indeed start with halopend's firmware. Then I said that I switched to polygonhell's firmware for its LCD and card reader support in polygonhell's repetier thread. So I actually switched but the reason was to get the card reader support. Halopend's firmware does support the LCD too.

[Eaglezsoar]

I know it's difficult to follow an entire thread! I did indeed start with halopend's firmware. Then I said that I switched to polygonhell's firmware for its LCD and card reader support in polygonhell's repetier thread. So I actually switched but the reason was to get the card reader support. Halopend's firmware does support the LCD too.

Okay, so that I can get my tiny little mind to understand all of this, I should get the developmental version of Polygonhell's repetier which does support LCD and SD cards.
Is this correct, for at least today?

[mhackney]

That's it! https://github.com/polygonhell/Repetier ... evelopment

Read the 2/14 comment - enabled the LCD and SD card.

[Eaglezsoar]

That's it! https://github.com/polygonhell/Repetier ... evelopment

Read the 2/14 comment - enabled the LCD and SD card.

GOT IT! Man does my head hurt from all of this...Thanks to you and Polygonhell, you guys are the heart of this forum.

[mhackney]

I posted this in another topic but wanted to capture here in my topic too.

Z, Max_LENGTH and Bed Level Calibration

I'm using Repetier firmware and host (on a Mac). I'm assuming you have a heated bed - ignore the pre-heating step if not!

1) Install your build surface (glass plate and/or blue tape, etc) and make sure the heated bed is up to temperature. I print ABS at 100°C bed, so that's the temp I used. The Onyx warps as it heats up so unless you have a flat surface on top of it, you will not have a planar surface to calibrate against. If you are printing on tape directly on the Onyx, do the following steps cold and deal with the warping issue depending on the location of your print, etc.

2) Calibrate Z at 0,0,0 in firmware. These are listed as the following in the firmware:

#define X_MAX_LENGTH 369.0
#define Y_MAX_LENGTH 369.0
#define Z_MAX_LENGTH 369.0

Here's how I did it: I set these to 375 so they are longer than my actual travel. Then I homed and brought the nozzle down to Z=20mm (G0 Z20 F2000). From there I used the buttons in Repetier host to slowly lower the nozzle (decrease Z) to the build surface. Start with the 10mm and then 1mm and finally .1mm for fine adjustment. I used a piece of cigarette paper (an old machinist's trick, it's about .001" thick) between the bed and nozzle (make sure your nozzle is clean!) to test the "fit" you can use a .001" (or metric equivalent) feeler gauge too. You want to bring the nozzle down until it just "snags" the paper or gauge. At this point, read the Z height on the Z axis display in Repetier Host. Subtract this number from 375mm to get your actual max lengths. For me this measurement was exactly 6.0mm, so 375.0mm - 6.0mm = 369.0mm. If you are using EEPROM settings, you can simply change this in the EEPROM without needing to recompile and upload your firmware. That makes it a lot faster to do and test. Check this at least 3 times to make sure it is reproducible using this process:

Home All - move to G0 Z10 - use buttons to lower 1mm nine times - place gauge - lower by .1mm 10 times - nozzle should just graze gauge

3) With your Z = 0 set you can adjust the planarity of the bed by adjusting the stops at the homing switches at the top of the towers. This is done one tower at a time with the nozzle positioned as close to the tower as reasonable. The process is described in the manual but use the "true" circumference points. These are:

X: G0 X-77.94 Y-45 F2000
Y: G0 X77.94 Y-45 F2000
Z: G0 X0 Y90 F2000

(note F2000 is feed rate to speed things up) These locations came from http://minow.blogspot.com (a MUST read for calibrating!)

At each one of these locations, you move down (using the Z buttons) until you get to Z=0. If you are lucky, the gauge will just graze the nozzle and you are done at that tower. If not, the nozzle will either be above the bed (case A) or the display will show that Z has not been reached (case B).

Case A Measure the gap and set the stop screw at the top of the tower (see a few lines below).

Case B Write down the extra distance the Z could go and set the stop screw as below.

Setting the stop screw: These screws are 6-32. That means they will advance .03125" per revolution. Converted to metric that is 0.79mm per revolution.

Case A - let's say that you measured a gap of .4mm. This means that the firmware thinks the tower length is .4mm shorter than it actually is! So, you need to "raise" the stop screw (lefty-loosey or counter clockwise looking from the top) .4mm - which is about 1/2 of a turn.

Case B - let's say that Repetier host shows (Z axis display) that you still have .2mm to go before reaching Z=0. This means the firmware thinks the tower length is .2mm longer than it actually is, so you need to "lower" the stop screw .2mm or about 1/8 of a turn, in this case righty-thighty or screw clockwise from the top.

That's it! Now you should go back and recheck everything 1 or 2 times to be sure.

Note that there is an advanced planarity adjustment described in the link above. I have not done this yet since my glass plate broke and I'm waiting for the replacement. If your machine is really "off" the re-check step above will show that Z=0 at X=Y=0 will not be correct. I'd adjust one more time through the entire process and if you still have this problem, then do the planarity adjustment. Hopefully I'll be there by Tuesday or Wednesday when my plate arrives!

There is an "auto calibrate" mode/command in the LCD controller firmware in Repetier. I have not had a chance to investigate it. In theory, all of the above could be accomplished in soft settings with the right math. It probably does not hurt to try to calibrate mechanically first though!

DISCLAIMER: there is some probability that there are mistakes or better ways to do the above. This is my first delta printer and I'm only a few weeks in and don't have a lot of experience yet!

NOTE/WARNING - since posting this on the original topic I tried playing around with the auto calibrate in the firmware exposed in the LCD Controller. Not intuitive and I hosed my configuration! I ultimately had to reupload the firmware with EEPROM disabled to get back to a good state. All sorts of weird things were happening!

[mhackney]

Following up on my post yesterday on the controlled experiment to determine why I am getting gaps in the infill on my prints. Here are the 3 test prints laid out to show how they were printed.

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v77 ... 8494-4.jpg[/img]

Note that I oriented the fill to go from the center of the build plate to the tower. You can read the details in the earlier post.

I know how this story ends so hang in there!

First, look at the part at the Z tower. It actually looks pretty reasonable and is the best infill I've had to date. At this position, there is very little movement along the axis (from the tower to the center of the table) and a lot from left to right.

Now look at the part at X. It may be hard to see but I have gaps at the arrows. This is what I typically have seen and the problem I'm trying to fix.

Then look at the part at Y, it's the worse one of the three. Gaps along multiple sides.

After thinking on this overnight, I hypothesized that one side of the Z delta arm U joints may be stiff or have backlash. I couldn't predict which side but it just seemed like Z was the culprit. I disassembled the delta arms from the Z carriage and immediately discovered that the delta arm on the X axis side was very stiff compared to the others. I took it apart and found 2 problems: 1) I had used a small screwdriver to install the arm on the aluminum bearing - BAD IDEA. I had several gouges in the face of the bearing that had burrs large enough to create a lot of friction. I also discovered that I had not "defuzzed" the delta arm U joint when I rounded the top. The fuzz had caught between the arm and joint, again adding friction. I cleaned all of this up, regreased with lithium grease, reinstalled and prepared for a test print to see if I found the problem. And here is the result - this piece was printed at the Y position so it was in the same spot as the worst of the three prints in the photo above:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v85 ... 0018-3.jpg[/img]

This part is very nice! No infill gaps and nicely filled overall.
So I am ready to proclaim that stiff delta rod U joints can lead to odd printing behavior! Given the number of folks with infill gap issues, I think re-investigating the U joint fit will eliminate those Delta Arm Blues!

Now I can go on to more fun things!

Cheers,
Michael

[Polygonhell]

Just a point for the calibration, DONOT believe the Z Height reading in repetier host, use M114.
Repetier host and all the othe host software I've used tracks the position separately and accumulates errors while jogging. M114 tells you exactly where the firmware thinks it is.