Carbon fiber delta arms (lots of pics/vids)

[texsc98]

I haven't posted anything in a while, but just couldn't wait to update my thread with all the printing I've done to share this....

If you're considering getting carbon fiber arms, DO IT! I'm thinking about offering kits if there's some interest. Since I first got my MAX I've had a fair amount of issues with infill not touching the perimeter, and I've sanded those joints so many times it's crazy, lol. Sometimes a print would turn out good, sometimes not so good, and printing fast usually made it worse. And I like to print high resolution, and fast! I was scared to sand anymore and cause side to side play. So I finally made the jump and sourced the parts to upgrade to the delta arms. At the same time I also added a belt tensioner, upgraded to the EZStruder (which is great), and switched from 15 tooth to 20 tooth pulleys. Now I just need to add a fan to help with overhangs and bridging...

The difference in print quality print after print is just amazing compared to the aluminum u-joints that shipped with it. I think I've read that the newer units don't have the sanding issues that the early ones like mine did, but I LOVE the peace of mind knowing that's one less thing I have to worry about calibrating when I get some print issues now...


I had posted a listing to sell a kit http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2175 for the carbon fiber rods but didn't get much interest, so in the open source ways I'm going to list the parts and instructional videos to just make them yourself if you'd like!

Hardware:
0.394" OD x .288" ID x 23.75" L Pultruded Carbon Tube (need 3): http://goodwinds.com/300139.html
--I chose those above because they were on clearance at Goodwinds... only 25 left right now though! But I think they have longer ones in regular stock. I'll have to get a measurement for the external dimensions of the ball joints, but the .288" was really close! I couldn't find that spec anywhere on the web, but had found the spec for the max width of the ball joint (10mm). So I pulled up the online image of it and blew it up really large on the monitor. I used a software based pixel ruler to get how many pixels it was at the widest part (around the ball), then the number of pixels around the smaller diameter I wanted to fit inside the carbon tube, and extrapolated the exterior dimension of the smaller shaft on the ball joint. I then converted that metric measurement to inches and found the closest thing that didn't require me to sand each joint and came up with 0.288" inner diameter!! Whew!
Traxxis ball rod ends (need 1 pack of 12): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BO ... UTF8&psc=1
And some bolts/washers/nuts from Fastenal (where I got mine), or some other source...
12 - M3x30mm
6 - M3 hex nuts
6 - M3 flat washers
24 - M4 hex nuts

Part 1 - Measuring/marking/cutting the rods to length:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3uXpzBRco[/youtube]

Part 2 - Attaching ball joint to carbon fiber rod
Ball joint holder Ball joint holder:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:37306
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcgiSfdw12M[/youtube]

Part 2 (continued) - Inserting ball into ball joint
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev5TTdLCwA0[/youtube]

Part 3 - Installing onto effector (print platform)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDzmMn30Vio[/youtube]

Part 4 - Installing onto cheapskate
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g407VDjvhrs[/youtube]

Stress Testing, impressive results with Locktite Superglue as the adhesive!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ffuAfe3Z5M[/youtube]


120mm/s snowflake vase print: http://youtu.be/cK9DonfdppE

.08mm layers.... yes 80 micron layers with 0.5mm nozzle!
[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-q4aO ... CN0221.JPG[/img]
[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iept ... CN0219.JPG[/img]

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MvO0 ... CN9654.JPG[/img]
[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DX1u ... CN9655.JPG[/img]
[img]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-aXHj ... CN9662.JPG[/img]
[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--_E5 ... CN9670.JPG[/img]
[img]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3yAC ... CN9672.JPG[/img]

More pictures: https://plus.google.com/photos/10915024 ... ttqu-o7kRw

[cambo3d]

definitely worth the upgrade from stock, i've not looked back since.

[Eaglezsoar]

Put your fiber arm kit info and pricing under the subforum SeeMe's List and see how much interest is generated.
I would put something in your signature also that tells members that you have them for sale in SeeMe's List.
You may be surprised at how much interest there is. You also need pictures of the arms.

[texsc98]

Put your fiber arm kit info and pricing under the subforum SeeMe's List and see how much interest is generated.
I would put something in your signature also that tells members that you have them for sale in SeeMe's List.
You may be surprised at how much interest there is. You also need pictures of the arms.

Yea that would be a good approach, I'll see if I have some time tonight and get them in there... thanks

After using them for a few days I still can't believe I waited this long to make the upgrade, lol

[texsc98]

Bump... posted hardware requirements & instructional videos in first post, enjoy!!

[Eaglezsoar]

Bump... posted hardware requirements & instructional videos in first post, enjoy!!

What is the Thingiverse # for the rod holder that is used to measure the arms and hold them while they are drying?
You mention it in the second video. Thanks for posting all of this.

[texsc98]

Sorry forgot to add that... It's actually in the video description on youtube, but here it is! I updated the first post as well
Ball joint holder Ball joint holder:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:37306

[Eaglezsoar]

Do you think the arms would be strong enough if a solid carbon rod were placed in the Traxxas hole (3mm?).

[texsc98]

haha, too funny you ask... When I placed my order at goodwinds, I actually ordered solid rod that would fit as well! I think solid rod "might" be strong enough... Given that the rods don't have a lot of lateral torque being applied to them, it's mostly just holding up the weight of the effector, and being split between 12 rods it's probably not very much. However, after getting the solid rod and feeling the flexibility of it vs the hollow I decided I'd rather not "chance it", I wanted to totally eliminate any chance of "grimlins" (aka "delta arm blues") associated with the arms once and be done with it

[Catfang]

So it looks like you tried both Gorilla Glue and Loctite Super Glue. Which would you recommend?

[texsc98]

So it looks like you tried both Gorilla Glue and Loctite Super Glue. Which would you recommend?

I'd say I preferred the gorilla glue... Because as it sets it expands so it makes for an extremely tight/secure fit. But I'm sure the super glue would hold plenty tight as well.

Although with the GG I did have to trim off the excess glue after it dried. Didn't have to do that with the super glue...

[Catfang]

Thanks! I ended up trying Loctite Super Glue, and it appears to have worked okay. I'm stuck in blizzard weather so it will still be a few days before I can install them in the shop though!

[texsc98]

Thanks! I ended up trying Loctite Super Glue, and it appears to have worked okay. I'm stuck in blizzard weather so it will still be a few days before I can install them in the shop though!

No problem, good luck with the blizzard!! At least the printer will help heat up the place some, lol!

[Pingel]

Noob question...

What exactly is it that the the carbon fiber arms do that result in a higher quality print?

[bubbasnow]

Noob question...

What exactly is it that the the carbon fiber arms do that result in a higher quality print?

in prior versions of the rostockMax the arms were cause of major headache because they were not perfectly smooth, they required a ton of sanding and no one every gets it perfect the first-30th time. the carbon is cheap, but its the traxxas joints that make it a smooth movement.

[texsc98]

Noob question...

What exactly is it that the the carbon fiber arms do that result in a higher quality print?

in prior versions of the rostockMax the arms were cause of major headache because they were not perfectly smooth, they required a ton of sanding and no one every gets it perfect the first-30th time. the carbon is cheap, but its the traxxas joints that make it a smooth movement.

You said it well! I can't comment on the current (or even recent) versions of the Rostock MAX... I got mine back in January 2013.

With that being said, it was a major pain point for me to get the arms joints (12 spots, 2 per arm) sanded to the perfect width so there was no binding between the arm and the joint while printing. I even tried dry graphite lube to help them move more smoothly. The arms/joints would cause infill to not touch the sides in random places, the platform to slightly tilt at times causing high spots, and those problems are very difficult to diagnose when you're setting up your very first printer. Especially one that is a Rostock style due to basically all arms moving at once to go from point to point.

I can tell you almost a year later now and I haven't had a single issue out of the carbon fiber ones though!! Best bang for the buck I ever spent on aftermarket parts for it!

[Pingel]

Thanks for the info!


I ordered the v2 which is scheduled to come tomorrow. I've read that there isn't any sanding required, would there ever be a reason to upgrade the arms?

[bubbasnow]

from what ive seen, these look greatly improved, try it and if your not suffering from any of the "delta arm blues" then you should not need to change it. search this forum if you dont already know what delta arm blues are.

[Eaglezsoar]

I agree with bubbasnow, the arms are vastly improved and the rollers the arms fit into have been improved.
I don't know if it is in the build guide but I would recommend some white lithium grease on the arm rollers where
they fit on the axles.

[Tinyhead]

Thanks for the info!


I ordered the v2 which is scheduled to come tomorrow. I've read that there isn't any sanding required, would there ever be a reason to upgrade the arms?

I got my MAX a month before the V2 came out and it's supposed to have the upgraded arms. It's more like sanding-free.... after you've sanded them. It wasn't bad, but there was still definitely some work involved. It's also possible they've solved that since, but just in case.

As far as the print quality, I've had great results. I have yet to see any symptoms of the delta arm blues.