Zesty Nimble extruder Kickstarter campaign...

[mhackney]

I've been following the Zesty Nimble for a bit and the campaign finally launched today. The Nimble is a very light direct drive extruder that is driven remotely by a drive cable. It is an interesting concept and one that I experimented with last year. I was not able to find a good drive cable for a reasonable price but the prototype extruder worked pretty well. The Nimble looks to have solved that problem and introduces some other innovations like being ambidextrous (so you can position 2 back-to-back for dual extrusion for instance), high torque and very easy filament loading. I don't usually get excited about Kickstarter 3D printer hype (for good reason as history has shown) but the few things I have supported have all passed muster and are all great products today. I expect the Nimble to be in that category. Check it out!

[gchristopher]

That really is a nifty idea! I'm 0 for 2 on backing 3d printer kickstarters, but I'll try this one on your recommendation! I have a lot of testing of the awesome 713maker effector plates to do first, but hopefully that'll be done first.

Or more honestly, the dinosaurs STILL have the credit card.

[Qdeathstar]

how is it different from the flex3drive?

[mhackney]

"We'll see". It has a lower gear ratio for one, it is lighter for another, it is ambidextrous and easy to load. It seems to pay attention to the details.

[Qdeathstar]

I've been wanting to get rid of the Bowden tube... Does kick starter refund your money if the company fails to deliver?

[mhackney]

No, see https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/ki ... ref=footer for details. You are "investing" so you have to do your research on the company.

[gchristopher]

No, see https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/ki ... ref=footer for details. You are "investing" so you have to do your research on the company.

No, it's much worse than that. Investors have legal rights and are entering into a legally enforceable relationship with a company. You're "donating" with absolutely no expectation of returns, and if things go bad, Kickstarter will do absolutely nothing to help. Protection and support for backers is nonexistent. Seriously, Kickstarter the company is only a few steps short of an outright scam, especially how they misrepresent or conceal past failures.

Only give money through Kickstarter if you are completely willing to get nothing in return, and if you want to support the people attempting whatever project they advertise, and are willing to accept their failure as if you'd handed the money to a good friend with no real expectation of them paying you back.

That said, I don't mind having supported Peachy Printer, despite the project ending in failure and massive embezzlement, because I still believe many of the individuals involved were really trying to make it happen. (And they released everything they designed as open source, which was a nice failure mode.) The iBox Nano was pure fraud to begin with, and the individuals behind it are serial con artists. That was one experience that really exposed how Kickstarter will fail to take any meaningful actions to protect or support backers.

In the case of Zesty, I'm throwing a (to me) small amount of money at someone to encourage them to bring a product to market. If I get something back, that's great, but with Kickstarter, I'm not investing and I'm not buying. I've already accepted the money is gone, and I have no recourse to get anything back if the project fails. (Or if they just blow it all on beer.)

[rurwin]

There's a few things Kickstarter is guilty of. I don't like their habit of only pushing the popular projects on social media. Not only are those the projects that don't need any further attention, leaving many others starved of cash, but over subscription is the main reason projects fail.

There are two ways I give money to Kickstarter projects. If I like the idea but don't want to commit to "buying" one of their products I give them a few pounds as a handout and usually don't even ask for the key-fob or whatever they are giving away at that level. There's a hover-bike being built with my money somewhere. It'll probably fail but it's a seriously cool idea.

But if I am to give money with the expectation of getting something in return then I do some due-diligence. Is the project possible? Have they got a working prototype? Is the team good and experienced? A good indication is the risks paragraph on the project page; are they being realistic?

And then I only hand over money that I can bear to lose.

The majority of projects that I back have succeeded and I have the goods to prove it. A couple haven't, including the Zano quadcopter. The story below is long, but well worth reading. This wasn't a scam, it was people who may be delusional and who were clearly out of their depth and without a working prototype. Their only dishonesty was not saying that up front and posting misleading video.

https://medium.com/kickstarter/how-zano ... c0abe4a6cb

To pull this back on-topic, I'd judge the Zesty to be worth the investment. The only reason I'm not jumping in is that I'm too much of a newble to want to replace my extruder now and my requirements in a few months may be different.

[626Pilot]

Seems like it would have a hysteresis issue, similar to pushing plastic through a Bowden tube. That is, the drive cable will naturally have some flex to it, so one step on the motor doesn't instantly equal one step's worth of rotation in the drive gear in the extruder. There would be some propagation delay, and possibly a small amount of "ringing" while the cable seeks equilibrium.

Nevertheless, it moves all of that hysteresis away from the filament, which is ideal for using flexible materials.

My current flying extruder system is massive, and requires counterweights:

If I can replace this with two or three frame-mounted motors, and these extruders, and if I can find a way to make the drive cables' Bowden tubes work without getting fouled up in the endstop switches, then this system would be worth it to me.

I'm backing them for one extruder.

[Qdeathstar]

I think I might go for two of these.... I'm still debating if I really want to go dual extruder... It was kind of more trouble that it was worth on my old Prussa.... But I think getting the cyclops instead of the chimera might make the experience worth while...

[Qdeathstar]

i'm including for $180

well see how it goes, i ain't never kickstarted before.

[ramai]

Well, if hackney thinks its cool, and 626 is getting one, well damnit, now I have to jump on this wagon too.

[joe]

Well, if hackney thinks its cool, and 626 is getting one, well damnit, now I have to jump on this wagon too.

Where's the bridge? I am going to jump off too!

[Zesty_Lykle]

Hello all,

Before I jump in with a few statements, answers and such, I want to ask if it is OK for me to do so.

I am new to this forum and have stepped on toes before, on other forums. Do not want to repeat that.
Yes I came to this forum to talk about the Nimble, of course I did. But I see a lot of info here that I like and in general like the "tone" of the place.
I will promise that I will not do marketing speak. Just the facts.

Lykle
Co-founder of Zesty Tech

[mhackney]

Hey Lykle, yes you are welcome to participate here. Let's leave this thread about the Kickstarter and I'll create a new thread in the Mods & Upgrades forum for Zesty Nimble for technical stuff now. I'll post a link here once I'm finished.

I think you will find this forum to be one of the most collaborative and friendly forums on the Web. I participate in a lot of other forums for my other interests (CNCZone, Pelican Porsche Forum, Classic Fly Rod Forum, Engraving forum and a lot of others) and none are as friendly as this one!

You did exactly the right thing by introducing yourself, stating why you are here and I am sure we'll have lots of technical questions!

And all here, I've had several email exchanges with Lykle over the last week or so and he's always been very forthcoming with information and answering my pesky questions!

[mhackney]

Ok, I've started the technical thread here: http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11049

and asked the first question (answer there please!).

[Zesty_Lykle]

Thanks Michael,

OK, about Kickstarter and how it works.

With Kickstarter it is an all or nothing system.
This means, if the Kickstarter campaign reaches the targeted goal, the money is released. If not you get it back.
In our case, we are looking for 38,000 Euro (approx $41,800) to allow us to make the molds for the plastic injection parts.

If our backers together pledge 37,999 Euros, we get nothing and all the backers gets their money back.
If we reach our goal, the money is released to us and then indeed, for the backers it is a gamble if they get anything. With most of the campaigns they do, but there are horror stories.
My own Delta printer is the result of a Kickstarter campaign. It cost me $800 and 2 years waiting.
That is another risk of a badly run campaign. Over reaching.

The reason I had to wait so long was because the company had not anticipated the need to deliver 300 machines, instead of 50. They had placed no limits to the pledges or rewards as Kickstarter calls them.
We limited the amount of Nimbles we offer as rewards, to a number that we know we can handle and will not break us if that total is reached.

So, to recap. Unless the goal is reached, you get your money back. If the goal is reached, you will have to trust the Kickstarter campaigner (in this case, me) to deliver the goods. That is the main gamble. What is worse is if you plump for 1 or 2 Nimbles and the goal is not reached. It is terribly frustrating to order something and then not get it because of a little rule in Kickstarter. But of course I would think that.

OH, one final remark (sorry a tiny bit of marketing speak here). This Kickstarter is for us only the start. We need it to succeed as it is the setup for our company. We have more products waiting (like the filament out sensor, a complete printer and other ideas) and cannot afford to fail. Both in reaching the goal and in delivering the Nimbles.

OK enough! Sorry to talk so long, there is lots to say about it.

Lykle