anomaly at layers 70-75 of 188

wsmac7 · Post by **wsmac7** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:01 pm

I am doing a second print of a toothed pulley for an e-Longboard skateboard conversion.
Both printings have this one anomaly on layers; 70,71,73,74, and 75.
Basically, the print commands have it stop printing my hex infill for approx. 1/3 of the surface of those layers... same place each layer... then finally doing a complete infill before returning to normal printing per the pattern.
Once complete, there is a bit of missing material at those layers, in the teeth of the pulley.
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I downloaded this .stl from Thingiverse, so I don't have the whole code.
Is there a way to open the file, either from the file I have or if the person who created it will send me the build code, and figure out what's causing this anomaly?
Is there a way to view this in a slicer and see what's up?
I use MatterControl with my Orion.
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The first one I printed in PLA, black, at stock settings.
The second is printing in PLA, blue, at custom settings.
Same anomaly... same place.
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The gap is inboard, a few layers before the bevel... eta: okay... it's barely visible... I'll get a better shot of the blue one in a bit.
[img]https://www.flickr.com/photos/46843507@ ... res/7h5FF7[/img]
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46843507@ ... res/7h5FF7
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how the layers look while printing... the area in question is the solid fill, you can just see the hex fill in back... which is the proper fill
[img]https://www.flickr.com/photos/46843507@ ... res/t4j0a8[/img]
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46843507@ ... res/t4j0a8
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these should be self-explanatory
[img]https://www.flickr.com/photos/46843507@ ... res/7637rA[/img]
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46843507@ ... res/7637rA

wsmac7 · Post by **wsmac7** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:14 pm

[img]https://www.flickr.com/photos/46843507@ ... res/Q795Ar[/img]
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46843507@ ... res/Q795Ar
The blue is still printing, but you can see... sorta... what I'm talking about.
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any ideas on how to trace back the issue?
I'm just glad I was sitting here when it started doing it again... finally caught the dog in action... so to speak... lol
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Also... uploading images... does it just take a bit for the links to work or what?
Guess I'll go check the FAQ's for that answer!

nitewatchman · Post by **nitewatchman** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:27 pm

Have you looked at the sliced file rendering layer by layer at this location?

Polygonhell · Post by **Polygonhell** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:30 pm

Usually issues like this are errors in the original model, it's probably not well formed. Unfortunately this is a common problem with thingiverse files.
Some slicers will deal better with certain types of modelling error than others, so you can try different slicers and see if they have the same issue.
The first thing you should try though is running the STL through netfabbs repair, to see if it will fix it.

wsmac7 · Post by **wsmac7** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:15 pm

Thanks ya'll!
I'm one of those who've been printing by the seat of my pants... not real well-versed on slicers.
I mainly use OpenScad to design my own stuff, then send the .stl file to my computer, and use MC from that to print.
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I haven't done much in the way of Thingiverse, or anyone else's, files before.
Thinking about it... this pulley is probably my first 'foreign' print.
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My computers are an Apple iMac (2010), and a MacBook Air (2014).
I'm still trying to pick my way through the mass of info and find a slicer or program with slicer function, that I can understand and use.
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I'll try the repair mentioned, and also go poking around in MC and elsewhere to figure out how to view the sliced file.
Again.. I'm still fairly new at this and ignorant about slicers.
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Thanks for the attention, information, and suggestions!

teoman · Post by **teoman** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:22 pm

In mc select the file and the you select layer view. But to view it you first have to press the generate button as the layers are generated per your slicer settings.

Itshould be self explanatory but the bar on ghe right will enable you to go through the layers.

wsmac7 · Post by **wsmac7** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:34 pm

teoman,
Thanks.
I do use Layer View, but it just gives me realtime tracing of what the printer is printing.
That's where I got the screenshots I link to in my opening post.

What I'm not sure is how to go about viewing and scrolling through each layer... if possible.
Even then... I can see what the printer is doing... but can't tell why.
I suppose by looking at the screenshots (the last ones in the first post), I can take those and if I can get the actual code... maybe figure something out?

What I'm anticipating being the issue for me, is to figure out where in the code it tells the printer to veer off course at layer 70 and goof around a bit before getting back on track by layer 75.

I'm going to post my print results on the original creator's page on Thingiverse and see what he has to say.

Meantime... I'm 50% into a 12hr print of a 'self-watering planter' off TV and it's going just fine!
I'm printing the outer pot.
I printed the insert planter overnight (8hr 44min) and that came out just fine also.

I won't be printing anymore of those pulleys, but it would be nice to know how to find the trouble spot in the code-to-slicer-to-printer communication so I can understand it all a bit better.

teoman · Post by **teoman** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:32 am

What i described is completely offline. I.e. not connected to printer.

teoman · Post by **teoman** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:51 am

Post your gcode here.

wsmac7 · Post by **wsmac7** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:26 am

teoman, thanks!
tonight I put a new file in and clicked 'generate' and figured out what 'bar' you were talking about... the vertical scrolling slider.
I'll put that problem file in next... although it will still only show me where the problem starts, and how it prints each layer... not the actual code for that layer.
I've moved on to other projects but would still like to learn how to trouble shoot layer-by-layer in the code.
I'm not too dense... but sometimes I need to step away for a bit then come back and look again...

Xenocrates · Post by **Xenocrates** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:15 am

What it shows you in there is what moves the code commands. If the layer view shows an error, then it is either a slicer or a model error. A way around it would be to use a program to pinpoint where the offending layer is, remove it's code, and then insert the code for a proper layer, if there is an identical one, with the proper Z value. I do not recomend this unless your slicer is using relative extrusion, and you know Gcode. I do so wish our firmware supported M97.

It may also be that a Netfabb cloud edition pass on the parts will take care of it easily. https://netfabb.azurewebsites.net/ Give it a shot.

wsmac7 · Post by **wsmac7** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:09 pm

Thanks Xenocrates... but...
I tried the repair and it got worse! hahaha... what a mess!
Again... I'm done with this print but someday hope to understand how to fix something like this if it ever happens to my creations!
Of course... if it's my own creation... I'll have the code to go back and dissect!
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Now if I can figure out how to post working images...

[img]https://flic.kr/p/BwRpRx[/img]
https://flic.kr/p/BwRpRx

[img]https://flic.kr/p/CrWaxN[/img]
https://flic.kr/p/CrWaxN

[img]https://flic.kr/p/CmWWR8[/img]
https://flic.kr/p/CmWWR8

Xenocrates · Post by **Xenocrates** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:34 pm

Oh dear. that is an interesting "repair". I guess you got the field circus engineer version of repair. As for how to post an image, using the editor, hit the Img button, then paste the images location into there. This isn't the page the image is on, but rather the location of the image itself, gotten by right clicking and hitting copy image location in the context menu.

nitewatchman · Post by **nitewatchman** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:37 pm

I know you are frustrated with the print but if you would post or send me the .stl file, I could jump inside it and see what is going on. Typically I find artifact of a previous structure inside the shell of the .stl. It may not be visible from the outside or it may show up as a few red triangle vertices in netfabb.

Many slicers, including my go to S3D, see this and say to themselves "this must be important or he wouldn't have left it in here" and try to incorporate it into the g-code with vey unpredictable but repeatable results. Sometimes a careful Trianglendectomey will fix the problem and the patient goes home happy.

Be glad to try and my Christmas rates are really affordable right now. Just pay it forward some day.

gary

wsmac7 · Post by **wsmac7** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:17 pm

Xenocrates, hahaha.... 'circus engineer version'?... cool!

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nitewatchman, I contacted the person on thingiverse who posted this originally... hopefully he or she will send me the whole file.
What I get from TVerse appears to be a locked file that can be read but not opened by me.
Here's what OpenSCAD sees when I open the downloaded file...
[img]https://flic.kr/p/Cuoyv6[/img]
https://flic.kr/p/Cuoyv6

Xenocrates · Post by **Xenocrates** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:04 pm

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/F/field-circus.html is the origin of the joke. I mainly use it to mean repairs which actually degrade function.

Mac The Knife · Post by **Mac The Knife** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:46 pm

For giggles, I'm printing this,, only I'm starting from the opposite end. I didn't look at your pictures until after I started printing. S3D didn't show any problems when I sliced it.

nitewatchman · Post by **nitewatchman** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:54 pm

wsmac7 wrote:Xenocrates, hahaha.... 'circus engineer version'?... cool!
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nitewatchman, I contacted the person on thingiverse who posted this originally... hopefully he or she will send me the whole file.
What I get from TVerse appears to be a locked file that can be read but not opened by me.
Here's what OpenSCAD sees when I open the downloaded file...
[img]https://flic.kr/p/Cuoyv6[/img]
https://flic.kr/p/Cuoyv6

I took the .stl, popped of sections of the skin and climbed inside to look around. The shell looks very good with no partial planes or construction surfaces left inside. There were no inverted triangles, open vertices or other usual suspects that cause trouble. In short, everything looks okay.

I let netfabb repair the openings I made and there were no changes to the appearance of the file. I then discarded the changes and kept the original file. I ran the original file through S3D and Slic3r using a layer height of .2mm to yield 188 layers. Focusing on the layers in the 60 to 80 range there did not appear to be anything amiss in the output code, (I did not print it).

I forgot to ask which slicer you are using to prep the code but to me it would appear to be something screwy going on inside the slicing routine. I could not find anything wrong with the file or any evidence of repair or tampering with the original .stl output.

Sorry for the wild goose chase.

gary

wsmac7 · Post by **wsmac7** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:57 pm

nitewatchman,
Thanks for all that! Can't tell if you're some kinda surgeon or you work on a secret program dissecting aliens! "...popped out sections of the skin and climbed inside...
Long as I stay on your good side... I'll be able to walk around town without looking over my shoulder all the time.... bwahahahahaha
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Seriously though, thanks for doing that. I do wish I understood the terms you are using and what you are doing exactly... but don't feel obliged to spell it all out for me...
I understand what you say about inverted triangles, open vertices, just not understanding how you get 'inside' to see all that.
I was imagining you exploding a 3D image... zooming inside and crawling over all the layers (if that makes any sense! lol). A virtual dissection in a sense.
I'll check those links/files you posted, a little later on... should run outside and do a few errands while the rain and hail has stopped!
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As far as how I go about creating, and/or just printing someone else's .stl... I use MatterControl just because it was on the SeeMeCNC website and recommended.
I have downloaded 123Design but not sure yet if there is a slicer built in there somewhere.
I also downloaded KISSlicer, but have not look inside that one much, yet.
So I'm just becoming more familiar with using a slicer as a front-end tool instead of something hidden and mysterious that I don't pay attention to when I plug in another .stl file and hit PRINT.
...I'm so proud of myself for wanting to learn... even at my advancing age of 55! lol

wsmac7 · Post by **wsmac7** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:00 pm

Oh... and I should mention that when I finally did view the layers in MatterControl... the anomoly showed up, by it's count, in the 40+ layer scheme no up in the 70's... for what that's worth...

nitewatchman · Post by **nitewatchman** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:05 pm

Actually looked at all the layers individually and nothing weird showed up in either S3D or Slic3r.

The dissection is actually easy. I use either netfabb or MeshLab with netfabb being the easiest for me. After opening the .stl, I go into the repair option for the file and delete triangle in the surface that are easily replaced due to their size or placement. This allows you to see inside the .stl "shell". The triangles can then either be replaced manually or repaired automatically.

netfabb is a very handy tool to have on hand. There is a limited free version and an expensive full version. The free does 99.9% of what I use it for.

gary

Mac The Knife · Post by **Mac The Knife** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:26 am

Both printed with ABS, in the position shown. One on the right printed at 80 mmps, the one on the right, 60 mmps. The ABS has been left out, so its sucked up some humididty.

nitewatchman · Post by **nitewatchman** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:07 am

Mac The Knife wrote:Both printed with ABS, in the position shown. One on the right printed at 80 mmps, the one on the right, 60 mmps. The ABS has been left out, so its sucked up some humididty.

Interesting part, clean design. What does it do?

wsmac7 · Post by **wsmac7** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:05 pm

Thanks for the lesson nitewatchman!
Mac The Knife, I was thinking of printing with the orientation reversed for me (starting with the prongs down... like in the righthand imnage of yours).
Nice prints there too! Hope you have a longboard, motor and all the other stuff so you can build that sweet electric skateboard with wireless control!

To drive the skateboard wheels... you have a bracket that the motor mount to on one end... with the other end attaching to the axle body of your truck.
This pulley is inboard.
A fiber belt runs from the small pulley at the motor, to this pulley at the wheel.
The six 'prongs' mate with six openings for a specific brand/model of skateboard wheel. The prongs... or maybe fingers are better?... tabs?... are what secure the pulley to the wheel hub to prevent slipping.
There is another part that fits on the outside of the wheel and provides the other surface for the six bolts to hold it all together.
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These images are from another person's build... I have the board... and I can make some of the parts... not sure I'm going there though... but it looks pretty cool!
People are making these with battery packs (you can see the person's grey/purple clamshell over their controller and batterypack, attached to the underside of the board), and electrics that allow them to use R/C wireless controllers or phones even, to run these.
They have regenerative braking as well!
Speeds around 20-30mph (some are claiming even 40+!) are being seen with these.

wsmac7 · Post by **wsmac7** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:14 pm

Our nurse at the clinic (I operate a small laboratory there) got the idea for her boyfriend to buy him all the parts (he already has a longboard) and make his Christmas gift a DIY kit!
I hacked out a two-piece aluminum mounting bracket and printed a two-piece as well as a one piece solid bracket.
I printed out the large pulley in blue, and black, and the retaining ring for the other side.
Once he has measurements for his battery pack and electronics, she's hoping I can print out a cover for it all... we'll see about that.
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She found information from an Instructable titled, "DIY Electric Longboard for $300", a good companion to that page IMHO... is another Instructable titled, "DIY Electric Longboard" by CoolRextreme.
The 3D files are on Thingiverse... http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:545345

Welcome to the SeeMeCNC Community

anomaly at layers 70-75 of 188

anomaly at layers 70-75 of 188

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