HUGE FAIL - had to disconnect nozzle

[TFMike]

Here is what I saw today when I check my printer (ORION):
[img]https://i.imgur.com/rf5TJKa.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/MVDxvKX.jpg[/img]

I was forced to clip the wires on the nozze and remove the thermistor and other thingies, I have some spares but I have no idea how to re-install them, do I need to get some new crimps or just use my soldering iron or what?

[TFMike]

Here is what the plastic glob look like which was wrapped around my hot end, No clue how this happened. I had printed two overnight prints with the same settings and same filament no problem at all before I tried this one, I was able to extricate the nozzle from the effector platform but had to cut off the little important things in order to do it, is there a guide on redoing this somewhere for the Orion?

[img]https://i.imgur.com/NEAnkq3.jpg[/img]

[Nylocke]

You should be able to follow the parts dealing with the hotend in Gene's V2 manual just fine.

[TFMike]

Any idea what caused this though? Thank god it was ABS as opposed to PLA as I should be able to acetone it all out.

[Nylocke]

I don't think you can just acetone all it out, looks like your PEEK broke. Looks like the thermistor disconnected and the hotend had a thermal runaway. SeeMe should really think about updating their repetier branch to .92, its got a really nice feature to prevent thermal runaway.. Anyway, after that happened, the ABS got overheated, as well as the PEEK and Teflon, broke the PEEK in half, and spewed out the sides, caking the hotend with ABS. The only reason it didn't catch on fire was because the leads on the resistors probably got kinda toasty and weakened, and then the force from the ABS pushing itself out in that manner caused the leads to be mechanically stressed by both the ABS spewing out of the hotend and the separation of the PEEK. Thats what it looks like to me at least. You'll need a new resistor set, new PEEK section, and possibly a new lower end of the hotend (the part where all the resistors go). Might serve you well to buy a new one if you haven't already.

[TFMike]

Should I update to the latest firmware to prevent thermal runaway or what? I am using an outdated one, or was should I say....

[precisionpete]

That looks like a good answer as to what happened.
Why don't you upgrade to an E3D metal hot end since this one is kinda toast? No pun intended.
And since your doing the whole electrical upgrade put in some connectors for easy removal of hot end.

[TFMike]

Why don't you upgrade to an E3D metal hot end since this one is kinda toast? No pun intended.
And since your doing the whole electrical upgrade put in some connectors for easy removal of hot end.

So use the e3d v6 with screw in thermistors and those quick connect thingies rather than solder? I am down for that. Is there a guide to installing that anywhere? I am really bad at stuff like this. Also I heard the e3d had problems printing PLA, is that still the case?

[Nylocke]

The V6 has its own fancy thermistor holding. Depending on how you do it, you may or may not have to do any soldering. If you get some connectors like http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... ads/1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This guy has alright guides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr02pG58gaU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I haven't had any issues with anything since upgrading the the V6 heater block and nozzle. I have a Kraken, and when I ordered it it came with the V5 stuff. I had minor issues with that, but nothing that really hindered PLA. E3d has taken a lot of advice from the community (especially Mhackney) about their design with V6. It works a lot better with all materials.

[KAS]

Will he need to print a mount for the E3D v6 for the Orion? Not familiar with the difference if any of the Max v2.

[Nylocke]

Yeah he would. Or he could buy a mount from SeeMe or TrickLaser.

[TFMike]

Nylocke, those quick connectors you linked do the same thing as the ones listed in the guide by Gene right? Just a different brand?

[Nylocke]

Essentially, yeah. I bought some cheaper Chinese ones off of amazon, they feel kinda cheesy, so I wouldn't recommend going the route I did. Those ones I linked will work great, Michael recommended them to me.

[TFMike]

And can I get the metal crimps at NAPA? Which size exactly?

[Nylocke]

Those connectors come with the crimps.

[TFMike]

Those connectors come with the crimps.

I am talking about the kind that go over the resistors

[Nylocke]

Oh, are you saying you're going to get another SeeMe Hotend? Or are you going with the E3D? The E3D has a heater cartridge that works a lot better, and the leads aren't solid, they are stranded, so they should fit into the crimps that that connector comes with. If you're saying a new SeeMe hotend, then yeah NAPA or a hardware/auto parts store will have them.

[TFMike]

Oh, are you saying you're going to get another SeeMe Hotend? Or are you going with the E3D? The E3D has a heater cartridge that works a lot better, and the leads aren't solid, they are stranded, so they should fit into the crimps that that connector comes with. If you're saying a new SeeMe hotend, then yeah NAPA or a hardware/auto parts store will have them.

Knowing that the E3D has heater cartirdges makes me nervous should I have another thermal ruanway what is to prevent a fire during an overnight print? I am going to clean out my hotend and order the peek piece from seemecnc to keep it around in addition to the e3d. Which size crimps from NAPA would you recommend for it?

I am thinking that my hotend issue might stem from not holding the top nut in place with a wrench when I disconnected the nozzle to clean it out from time to time. This caused some turning and probably jarred the components loose. Is this a sound hypothesis?

[Nylocke]

That could be how the thermistor got loose. I've got a config file posted in my build log for a stock MAX for .92 Repetier with the thermal runaway protection enabled. I might have some settings wrong, so if you'd prefer to wait on it for me to test it on a stock machine I have one I can test it on this Tuesday.

You'll want either bullet connectors or spade connectors for the heating resistors. I'd just get an assorted box.

The difference between the E3D and the SeeMe hotness are that the E3D doesn't have the plastic bits that can catch on fire connected directly to the hot parts of the machine. Also the thermistor is screwed securely in place.

[TFMike]

Thanks for the heads up on the repetier firmware to prevent runaway, any more info on this that I should read up on? I am terrified of overnight printing now.

[Nylocke]

The likelihood of the thermistor coming loose on an E3D V6 is negligible. I've done a lot of unmonitored prints on the more stock MAX that my robotics team owns. I was away and some novices used it and caked the hotend with plastic and it still didn't fail.

[Polygonhell]

I haven't looked at 0.92, but a lot of run aways cannot be detected. I lost my very first hotend this way, the thermistor didn't just pop out of the hole, it creeped out resulting in it reading progressively lower and lower temperatures for a given set temperature, because the creep was gradual, doing what I assume 0.92 does which is detect the case where your applying power and the temperature isn't rising doesn't help until long after the PEEK section of the hotend has failed.
Just make sure the thermistor is secured in the hole with some kapton and you make sure there some strain relief on the thermistor wires, the RTV silicon is not designed to be a structural bond.

[TFMike]

anyone got a pic of how the kapton should look when securing the thermistor?

[TFMike]

Sorry to necro this, but I will have 3 hot ends (stock orion, stock rostock and e3d v6) when all is said and done and only 2 delta printers (one cartesian as well) and I would like to be able to have them all running at the same time and be able switch out them out with ease, do I simply need something like this: http://makerhive.proboards.com/thread/6 ... tock-orian" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ?

Or is there a less involved way to have the thermistor and heating elements wired to connectors that allow me to switch them out at ease? I went ahead and got some screw in thermistors here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Modular-Screw-o ... 1341736569" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, but they are not necessary for the e3d, as well as three of these:
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... ads/1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did I get the right tools to be able to swap the hot ends out with ease or did I make a huge mistake somewhere along the way?

[KAS]

I'm a big fan of the yellow jack boards. But any male/female socket style connector should work. Some people use Deans or EC3 connectors, some use the one you linked.

But the quick release is only so useful if you have everything setup and configured. Three hotends for example, you need to manage three sets of firmware that way you don't have to change the thermistor values, and you don't have to autotune PID's each time you swap hotends. I think that's why so many people are going to dual+ hotends and just running different material through different nozzles vs switching out hotends.

In my case, I'm just going to build another printer... I've got the v2 working great and I don't want to touch it for a while.