hot end problems

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joeshmoe
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hot end problems

Post by joeshmoe »

I have had my orion for almost a year now. The first one I received Had problems with the hotend not reaching target temp. The one I have now developed the same problem after about two months. It runs about 5 degrees below target temp. With the layer fan running it runs about 15 degrees below target. I have to crank it up to 240 just to get 225. Does anybody have a fix for this problem. I'm not complaining, I just want to get it fixed. I love seemecnc so don't kick me off of the forum.

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Re: hot end problems

Post by geneb »

We'd NEVER kick someone off the forum for having problems or not liking the products. :)

You might want to try putting some silicone exhaust tape around the bottom of the heater block on the hot end and the aluminum barrel above it. That should prevent the PEEK fan from robbing any heat away.

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JFettig
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Re: hot end problems

Post by JFettig »

You might also just want to run a PID auto tune again. Sometimes you have to manually fine tune them, but if you don't have a grasp on the PID algorithm, its not a good idea.

RocketMagnet
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Re: hot end problems

Post by RocketMagnet »

Just had exactly the same issue with my Orion and it was fixed with a PID tune.

Instructions are in the Rostock Max V2 Build manual page 232 to 234 (though if your not used to Matter Control Software some pages prior are needed to see how to use the "terminal" which is used to run the autotune procedure)
http://download.seemecnc.com/rostockmax ... dition.pdf

Essentially it outputs 3 blocks of data and you use the average for each P,I or D value and upload these new values to the Eeprom from either Matter Control or Repetier.
Below are the values I got and how much they changed from the stock original ones(note I did my tune @ 230 DegC as I generally always use ABS).
PID Values.png
PID Values.png (5.75 KiB) Viewed 5943 times


So as can be seen above my I & D values were significantly different and changing them to the new calculated averages did fix the issue for me, mine was holding 3 DegC below target.

Turning on the layer fan will depress your nozzle temp a bit but 15 DegC sounds like a lot to me, I usually see about 5 DegC drop at 100% fan. Personally with ABS I only use the Layer fan on bridging and depressing
the Nozzle temp helps a bit also.. hopefully the tune should help...

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jdurand
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Re: hot end problems

Post by jdurand »

I don't know if it's the resistors burning in or what, but I redid the PID tune and the numbers are way different than the first time I ran it when the v2 was new. It regulates better with the new numbers.
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Re: hot end problems

Post by Polygonhell »

jdurand wrote:I don't know if it's the resistors burning in or what, but I redid the PID tune and the numbers are way different than the first time I ran it when the v2 was new. It regulates better with the new numbers.


Might be, but IME running autotune is like running a random number generator, result is heavilly depends on the environment. It also generates values with way to much I and D IMO, which is why you get the I can't reach the temperature I'm requesting issue.

RocketMagnet
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Re: hot end problems

Post by RocketMagnet »

Yeah I was thinking ambient temps must impact on the tune.

I suppose this brings up the obvious stuff like if you build an enclosure for your printer you'll probably have to redo the tune...

joeshmoe
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Re: hot end problems

Post by joeshmoe »

Thanks for the help!

RocketMagnet
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Re: hot end problems

Post by RocketMagnet »

OK I now understand PID a bit better.

As far as I can tell it has to overshoot the setpoint for the D to work, if your D value is too big it wont get there, likewise if it's too small it will overshoot significantly.

So if it's not getting there your D value is too big.

The I part holds it at temp when it gets there I think...and the Proportional is the initial heating phase to get it here quickly and simply looks at the sign of the error...(am I +ve or -Ve so pure on/off)

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Re: hot end problems

Post by Polygonhell »

http://flitetest.com/articles/pid-s-exp ... mple-terms

I think that link is as good a description of PID as I've seen without any math.

Fester
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Re: hot end problems

Post by Fester »

RocketMagnet wrote:Just had exactly the same issue with my Orion and it was fixed with a PID tune.

Instructions are in the Rostock Max V2 Build manual page 232 to 234 (though if your not used to Matter Control Software some pages prior are needed to see how to use the "terminal" which is used to run the autotune procedure)
http://download.seemecnc.com/rostockmax ... dition.pdf

Essentially it outputs 3 blocks of data and you use the average for each P,I or D value and upload these new values to the Eeprom from either Matter Control or Repetier.
Below are the values I got and how much they changed from the stock original ones(note I did my tune @ 230 DegC as I generally always use ABS).
PID Values.png


So as can be seen above my I & D values were significantly different and changing them to the new calculated averages did fix the issue for me, mine was holding 3 DegC below target.

Turning on the layer fan will depress your nozzle temp a bit but 15 DegC sounds like a lot to me, I usually see about 5 DegC drop at 100% fan. Personally with ABS I only use the Layer fan on bridging and depressing
the Nozzle temp helps a bit also.. hopefully the tune should help...



I was trying to do this .But when I input M303 200 my temp on the machine only goes to 154C then settles at 150C then gives me the P I D 'S .It seams no matter what value I enter The temp only reaches 154 C. I have also messed around with the max drive valve from a post I read . That did nothing . The printer seams to run fine ,no problems going over 230C in a print . I have changed the print head to E3D v6 a while ago . I also changed the thermistor settings in the firmware. It just seams to be off temp .

RocketMagnet
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Re: hot end problems

Post by RocketMagnet »

Going to ask the obvious question first..... Command will be M303 S200 (NOT M303 200)

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Jimustanguitar
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Re: hot end problems

Post by Jimustanguitar »

RocketMagnet wrote:Going to ask the obvious question first..... Command will be M303 S200 (NOT M303 200)


Correct. You can use your target temperature as well. I usually do mine as M303 S230.

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bvandiepenbos
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Re: hot end problems

Post by bvandiepenbos »

could be the cheap power supply going bad.

or bad/loose connection at silly crimp connection on the heating resistors.
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Fester
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Re: hot end problems

Post by Fester »

RocketMagnet wrote:Going to ask the obvious question first..... Command will be M303 S200 (NOT M303 200)


Thank you ...I am such a noob .... :o

I love my ORION ...Operator mistake more than often....It Just Prints ...

zerakren
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Re: hot end problems

Post by zerakren »

Hey guys im having a weird issue that im thinking is in the firmware or in repetier somewhere but i cannot find it.
Every time I start a print the temp on my hotend will drop to 200.
In config > printer settings i have the defualt temp set as 225 and the max temp set as 245.

every time i print the head will drop down till its about 10mm off the plate, cool the hot end down from 230 to 200 and then start printing. which then throws off the temp and screws the first layer and ruins the print immediately.

Iv started printing a huge brim, cranking the heat back up after it has fallen to 200 and then trying to clean the goo off the hot end as its printing so hopefully once it gets to the actual print it might start sticking to the plate again.

Im printing octave red 230/100
marlin firmware on repetier host 1.0.6

trying to work through the many issues one at a time.

zerakren
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Re: hot end problems

Post by zerakren »

I got it. Slic3r first layer setting. :oops:

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mechg
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Re: hot end problems

Post by mechg »

I just had a resistor burn out on my Orion after about 6.5 hours print time, so I replaced both resistors with a single 40w cartridge heater here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221501592348

Warning - I got quite a bit of smoke from the cartridge when I first cranked it up. Be prepared to ventilate your work area well. After a minute or so the smoke stopped.

The existing EEPROM settings for PID allowed it to oscillate between 195 and 206 degrees, so I ran Autotune per the instructions in the Rostock manual and now it stays +/- 1 degree.

My settings came out to P = 7.91, I = .32, D = 49.

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Eaglezsoar
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Re: hot end problems

Post by Eaglezsoar »

Gene's suggestion to wrap the heat block on the hotend with silicon tape is a good one.
The tape can be purchased at a lot of auto parts stores, Amazon and online at a lot of places such as Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rescue-Tape-1-x ... 19d831f4f3

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