E3D V6 printing problems

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rehabmax
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E3D V6 printing problems

Post by rehabmax »

i have a Rostock max V2 printer for about a year. The stock hot end blew a resistor and instead of going though all the work of replacing it, the copper silicone, all the kapton tape, etc, I thought here is my chance to get a better hot end. i had been looking at the E3D v6 for awhile. Much cleaner design. the thermister is held down by a screw and not just shoved in a hole with silicone, the heater cartridge looked better. So i bought one from Matter Hackers.
I made the change out, updated the firmware. i thought i did everything correctly. i have had multiple issues with the new hot end and now I question what i did.

I can only print small objects decently. On a longer print the hot end stops extruding filament about 30-40 minutes into the print. i serviced the cold end thinking maybe the hobbed gear or something was hanging up the filament. Even after doing all of this it is not working right. The temperature at the hot end does not drop. it gives a nice first layer for 30 minutes or so, then I can see it starts to get sporadic and within a few passes, nothing is coming out.

I am using a Pro level PLA filament. it is not the filament quality. i have tried ABS and other PLA spools with similar disappointment. The cold end is moving filament well. When the hot end stops extruding I can see that no further filament is moving through the cold end or down the Bowden tube.

i have the new hot end mounted well in the new mount. X,Y.Z arms were readjusted. Everything has been tightened well at the nozzle and heatbreak. I have adjusted the retraction amount to 2 mm and made some other minor setting adjustments in Matter Control.

I am unable to figure out what is going on. The original hot end was not my favorite design. Now I am in limbo. A new hot end that is not working as expected. The summer has been very disappointing with nothing coming off of my printer of any quality.

I have tried to import a jpg photo of the issue into this box but I cannot seem to get it to upload.

If anyone has suggestions i would really appreciate it.

Thank you.

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Stevolution
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by Stevolution »

I (stupidly) started with the E3D V6 print head and found it to be useless. The nozzle kept undoing itself, and I never got a decent print out of it.
My prints improved vastly when I went back to the factory hotend.
The E3D V6 blocked quite a lot as well. Not really much help to you, but I do feel your pain. Its annoying to waste money on what you think will be an improvement.

rehabmax
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by rehabmax »

Thank you. Not the answer I was hoping for but at least an honest one. The E3D has been a disaster for me.

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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by cloneit3d »

I use a E3d v6 on my Catesian printer and keep the fan down low on the aluminum heat sink barrel. Maybe give that a try? The fan needs to be operating well and the entire time the hot end heats up and cools down. Another tip I read intimated that each filament has a extrusion temperature guideline however with all the factors that can be different for each user the suggestion was to extrude say 40mm at a specified temperature and lower the temperature 5C and repeat the process until extrusion is slightly difficult and then raise the temperature back up 5C to set the optimal temperature for that filament and a given machine/environmentals. Another tip on the print tip is that it has to be tightened down when it is heated up. Lastly the print head uses very little retraction. I find .5mm works well. Read the tips on the E3d site and you may be able to solve the issues. Retraction setting of 2-5mm in my experience will cause the filament to strip and longer prints will fail. Hope some is this helps.

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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by Xenocrates »

I use an E3D on my max. I used a laser cut mount at first, and experienced many of the same problems, as the fan couldn't sit at the very bottom of the barrel. Now that I have a proper mount with longer standoffs and no play or flex (The 713maker mount), I've had many fewer problems with the hotend. I found that the temperatures I used for the stock hotend were rather useless for the V6, as some wanted higher and some lower, in a few cases by large amounts. There are other things, but Cloneit mentioned those.

As far as pictures go, I suggest you upload them to someplace like Imgur, or Imageshack, then embed them using the IMG button.
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rehabmax
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by rehabmax »

Since I have just about given up on the E3D what do you think about waiting for the new hot end that is coming out for the Rostock max V3 and doing a retrofit for the V2. What is the purpose of the accelerometers that are incorporated.. If the wires have to go onto a new 8 pin board will there need to be removal of an X or Y arm to push the wires through or is there going to be some other way to do it. I take it the install manual is not out yet.

What a disappointment the E3D hot end has been. The easiest thing will be to go back to the original hot end, but I do feel it is a step backwards and not forward.

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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by TwoTone »

rehabmax wrote:Since I have just about given up on the E3D what do you think about waiting for the new hot end that is coming out for the Rostock max V3 and doing a retrofit for the V2. What is the purpose of the accelerometers that are incorporated.. If the wires have to go onto a new 8 pin board will there need to be removal of an X or Y arm to push the wires through or is there going to be some other way to do it. I take it the install manual is not out yet.

What a disappointment the E3D hot end has been. The easiest thing will be to go back to the original hot end, but I do feel it is a step backwards and not forward.


Not trying to sound preachy, but these things aren't plug and play. If you're not going to take the time to figure out your issues, then I doubt just buying something else will work.

My son is 14, he just moved to a E3D-V6, with a 713maker mount. Took him a little while to figure out the new setting changes needed, but he did.

One thing off the top of my head, did you change the thermistor type?

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Stevolution
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by Stevolution »

Why do people always assume that we have not tried everything? I spent hours, days, months trying to get the E3d v6 working. It never did work properly.
I have poured more wasted hours into this 3d printer than I have ever done with any other hobby.

As I type, the printer has failed again. These things work for some people, but not for others.

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Tincho85
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by Tincho85 »

Stevolution wrote:Why do people always assume that we have not tried everything? I spent hours, days, months trying to get the E3d v6 working. It never did work properly.
I have poured more wasted hours into this 3d printer than I have ever done with any other hobby.

As I type, the printer has failed again. These things work for some people, but not for others.


Not trying to be harsh, but if it works properly for the vast majority, you are either doing something wrong or your item is faulty.
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by Xenocrates »

I think I'll split the difference between you Steve, and Tincho.

It may be that everything you can think of has been tried, but in the wrong order (Or that something you tried on the advice of someone else broke something). I've seen someone spend hours trying to fix an issue with a motherboard that turned out to be the need to flash the BIOS, reset the CMOS, reflash the BIOS, swap BIOS's, flash again, then reset and reflash a last time. If you didn't do it in exactly that order and do nothing else while trying it, it would fail. The automatic tool had been updated too far in advance of the MB firmware on the board to work.

There are many factors which can cause something to fail. A well designed, well implemented system should have very few approaches that are obvious and yet don't work. The V6 has a number of ways it can fail, especially as best practices for mounts and a universal method of setting it up largely don't exist. For example, the Seeme laser cut mount is designed to bend over the top of a V6. I made a nearly identical one which slipped over (Tolerance difference of .75MM), and that caused my V6 to rotate, gradually becoming looser in the mount, until it started having major issues. So I made another one the same way, but out of Melamine, and what do you know. The binder in it and crush resistance made enough difference it didn't fail. As a note, Seeme's was laser cut birch, same as my original, and I used scrap Seeme melamine for it, so both material had working approaches, but I attempted to mix them in a way which didn't work.

The item may be poorly designed for user-friendliness, defective, or some magic incantation may have been left out of the instruction manual. Documentation is king, and unfortunately, few of us are nearly as good at it as say, Geneb. The E3D documentation certainly isn't great. Let's just say that installing PT100's was a bit of an adventure.

Some of the things are beyond explaining. If I tell you to turn the nozzle until it feels like you're jacking up a trailer, or give you a torque number, or number of fingers to use, it might help, but it may very well be useless. How many people will use a torque wrench on a nozzle, or have the same build and experiences I have. I personally have more issues with the nozzles being in too tight than loose now, after there's been some plastic that's gotten on them, especially with the hardened steel nozzles.
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Tincho85
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by Tincho85 »

Agreed, sometimes we follow instructions as per suggested, but we miss something or it was something else and we added another variable to the problem.
It happened to me to misinterpret some tips due to not understanding it in english and ended up messing it all.

In that case, when everything I tried failed, the best thing to do is call a friend/tech/someone with more knowledge and try to solve it together.
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by TwoTone »


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Stevolution
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by Stevolution »

The E3d V6 will never see my printer again :roll: Stock head works far better. Sticking with that. I don't need to lose any more evenings over the V6

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barry99705
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by barry99705 »

Wow. After my stock hotend meltdown I went with an e3d v6 and haven't had any of these issues. Even with my ghetto temp mount while printing a proper mount! https://goo.gl/photos/AQfVzokkteV1Foyw6
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by Polygonhell »

barry99705 wrote:Wow. After my stock hotend meltdown I went with an e3d v6 and haven't had any of these issues. Even with my ghetto temp mount while printing a proper mount! https://goo.gl/photos/AQfVzokkteV1Foyw6


Many people had issues, specifically with PLA and pre V6 E3D hotends, some worked perfectly others wouldn't print PLA.
I own a V4, 2 V5's a Kraken, a V6 and a V6 lite.
One of the V5's, the V6's and the Kraken all print PLA reliably,
The others will jam in seconds, and I'm pretty sure I assembled all the same way.
Every single one of them reads the wrong temperature on my V1 Rambo with the recommended thermistor settings and it's off by over 20C.

There are certainly less issues with the V6, but I wouldn't rule them out, and I'm sure Sanjay etal would happilly replace those that do have issues.
There is also a lot of scope for subtle miss-assembly, which would probably be impossible for someone to diagnose remotely.

The Stock hotend on the other hand (while I've never liked it) is pretty much fool proof, it's a peek design with a PTFE liner, almost any geometry with that combination will produce a print from PLA if the PLA is actively cooled.
It'll be interesting to see how the new stock hot-end fairs in this regard.

There is a lot of "it works for me therefore is must be you" that happens in this "hobby", and a tendency for certain parts to get disproportionately positive/negative reputations because of a few posts on various message boards.

E3D makes a good product, but it wouldn't be my first choice for someone new to the hobby, especially someone assembling their first printer, it just compounds the complexity of debugging unnecessarily.

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barry99705
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by barry99705 »

Polygonhell wrote:
barry99705 wrote:Wow. After my stock hotend meltdown I went with an e3d v6 and haven't had any of these issues. Even with my ghetto temp mount while printing a proper mount! https://goo.gl/photos/AQfVzokkteV1Foyw6


Many people had issues, specifically with PLA and pre V6 E3D hotends, some worked perfectly others wouldn't print PLA.
I own a V4, 2 V5's a Kraken, a V6 and a V6 lite.
One of the V5's, the V6's and the Kraken all print PLA reliably,
The others will jam in seconds, and I'm pretty sure I assembled all the same way.
Every single one of them reads the wrong temperature on my V1 Rambo with the recommended thermistor settings and it's off by over 20C.

There are certainly less issues with the V6, but I wouldn't rule them out, and I'm sure Sanjay etal would happilly replace those that do have issues.
There is also a lot of scope for subtle miss-assembly, which would probably be impossible for someone to diagnose remotely.

The Stock hotend on the other hand (while I've never liked it) is pretty much fool proof, it's a peek design with a PTFE liner, almost any geometry with that combination will produce a print from PLA if the PLA is actively cooled.
It'll be interesting to see how the new stock hot-end fairs in this regard.

There is a lot of "it works for me therefore is must be you" that happens in this "hobby", and a tendency for certain parts to get disproportionately positive/negative reputations because of a few posts on various message boards.

E3D makes a good product, but it wouldn't be my first choice for someone new to the hobby, especially someone assembling their first printer, it just compounds the complexity of debugging unnecessarily.


Yea, I can see that. Wasn't trying to say Steve was doing something wrong, just from my experience with this hotend it seems pretty bullet proof. Have to say, Steve has way more patience than I do. If his printer was mine it would have been a smoking crater in the back yard by now. Which really would have pissed my wife off. I've been wanting a 3d printer since before MakerBot was a glimmer in Bre's eye. She says it's probably the best gift she's bought me in years.
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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by dajay23D »

if you're using PLA, have you tried adding vege oil to "prime" it? Have you played w/ diff temperature settings?
If you guys hate it so much, can i have your e3dv6? I'm actually looking to buy another...=)

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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by TwoTone »

dajay23D wrote:if you're using PLA, have you tried adding vege oil to "prime" it? Have you played w/ diff temperature settings?
If you guys hate it so much, can i have your e3dv6? I'm actually looking to buy another...=)


If you can wait, we'll be selling ours with a full brass nozzle set and 2x .5 hardened steel nozzles and the boots for the block.

The only reason is we backed the Prometheus Multi Filament kickstarter. Otherwise, very happy with the E3D-V6

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Re: E3D V6 printing problems

Post by Zesty_Lykle »

The fact that you can start printing and that it only fails after a certain period of time, points to 2 things in my mind.

1. Retraction. The V6 is sensitive to retraction. Retract too far, and the PLA will jam the nozzle. Max retraction on a direct drive, is 3 mm, but 1 is preferred.
2. Bad fan efficiency. The heat sink fan needs to able to keep the heat sink cool. If not, you get the same problems as in case 1.

The PLA will melt above the heat break and jam the hot end.

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