Onyx Blues (waiting sucks)

[theverant]

So I'm trying to print ABS after a long period of PLA only. I build a tent around the printer, but it seems like 90c is the usable max the Onyx is able to reach, and it takes it's sweet time to get there. I had in the past upgraded the power supply from the ATX one, and did notice a speed increase in both the Onyx (40-60 for PLA) and hotend (E3D). I have an early Onyx, maybe V2? I've ordered a 24V power supply to try and get more jolts into it because this is painful. I'm just wondering if I should spring for the 24V Oynx on sale currently, or if I should just say shag it and get a shiney new V7 Oynx. Does the V7 heat up better/fasterer?

I'm looking for the least amount of mucking about, but I want usable results. Ideally a bed that heats to 100 in a reasonable time frame. It has less than half the surface area heated bed, but the MB replicator 1 at work takes only a few minutes to heat to 100+. Is it possible for the Onyx to get to 100 in less than 10? Waiting sucks.

[bot]

I just put a piece of paper or two on top to insulate the surface as it gets to temp... it does take a while, though, still. Compared to the print time, though, it seems negligible.

[theverant]

What are your operating temps? How long to get up to temp? Are you putting the paper on top of the glass?!?! What are you using to glue the ABS down? I seem to be having quite the time with curling, can't get anything to print flat. Contrast to the MB-Replicator which I don't have issues with (some curling from time to time, but I have a pretty good handle on it). I'm not a neophyte when it comes to printing ABS, but it seems like the V1 RoMax isn't really up to the task. Am I wrong? Is there a step I am missing?

[0110-m-p]

Well I can confirm that 90C is the realistic usable max temp on a R2 Onyx on 12V. I can't hit 100C period and have a very hard time maintaining 95C, so 90C is what I run at and it takes a solid 20 minutes to reach.

I have been considering similar upgrades (either 12V and R7 bed or 24V and the R3 bed). I have yet to figure out how the R3 bed performs on 24V which is the reason I haven't pulled the trigger on either upgrade yet.

[bot]

I must admit I do have an R7 bed.

It struggles to get above 95 in a cold room, without placing the paper directly on top of the glass. With the paper I can get to 110 in about 30 minutes or less. Once at temp, during the print, it seems o be able to stay above 100 at least. I try and cover the entire surface. I'm using glue stick and am getting pretty good results.

[Jimustanguitar]

The "real" solution is to switch to 24v. I've regularly printed at 110C, and it only takes 3 or 4 minutes to get there on an R2 bed.

[theverant]

The "real" solution is to switch to 24v. I've regularly printed at 110C, and it only takes 3 or 4 minutes to get there on an R2 bed.

That's sort of what I suspected. Do you see any benefit with the "24v" V3 over the V2? Are you running 24V into RAMBo or using the SSR method? Can I just run everything off 24V if I toss a 12v regulator in the mix for the Mosfets and Motors & Logic connections, and connect the 24V straight to the Heated Bed connection? Or does the RAMBo have regulators built in for 12v motors, etc? The reprap wiki says it can accept 12-24v in on all three connections.

Cheers,
Nathan

[jesse]

I put a piece of Styrofoam 1 inch on the bed and it reaches 100 C in about 10 minutes. You can also use a towel or a pot holder.

[theverant]

I put a piece of Styrofoam 1 inch on the bed and it reaches 100 C in about 10 minutes. You can also use a towel or a pot holder.

That's not a bad idea - so you put it on, heat the bed, take it off run the print? I'ma gunna hafta try that!

[0110-m-p]

The "real" solution is to switch to 24v. I've regularly printed at 110C, and it only takes 3 or 4 minutes to get there on an R2 bed.

That's sort of what I suspected. Do you see any benefit with the "24v" V3 over the V2? Are you running 24V into RAMBo or using the SSR method? Can I just run everything off 24V if I toss a 12v regulator in the mix for the Mosfets and Motors & Logic connections, and connect the 24V straight to the Heated Bed connection? Or does the RAMBo have regulators built in for 12v motors, etc? The reprap wiki says it can accept 12-24v in on all three connections.

Cheers,
Nathan

The Rambo can handle 24V, but not the current associated with 24V to the heated bed (around 21A). So no matter what an SSR is needed whether you run 24V to the bed and 12V to the Rambo through a regulator or just run straight 24V with and SSR between the board and the bed.

[PartDaddy]

The Onyx Rev 7 heats nicely and easily gets over 100C, BUT requires a higher quality / wattage PSU. If you have an older machine with a 450W supply, you'll need to upgrade. We have been using a 600W supply which has been reliable with the rev7 heated bed.

I recommend a good quality 700 or 750 Watt ATX supply. The ratings on ATX PSU box are pretty useless. It seems under full load, they'll output about 2/3 of the rating. The more load, the lower the voltage.

And finally, I recommend removing the rear cover if you think the cabinet is getting too warm. We've seen some power supplies shut off due to high temperatures. The current cabinet design has more ventilation to compensate for more power.

[0110-m-p]

The Onyx Rev 7 heats nicely and easily gets over 100C, BUT requires a higher quality / wattage PSU.

Can you comment on the performance of the R3 bed at 24V?

[PartDaddy]

Oly & JJ happen to be in my office. And we'd say under 10 minutes at 24V. The resistance increases as the temperature increases. So heating will always slow down some as it gets hotter.

[theverant]

The Rambo can handle 24V, but not the current associated with 24V to the heated bed (around 21A). So no matter what an SSR is needed whether you run 24V to the bed and 12V to the Rambo through a regulator or just run straight 24V with and SSR between the board and the bed.

Okay, that makes sense about the current. I'll order a SSR. But do I need a regulator to knock the 24v down to 12 to run the 12v motors and hot end? Or does RAMBo have built in regulators? I can't find anything confirming one way or the other on the wiki, and I'm not comfortable trying to read the schematics when I don't know where or what specifically to look for. Ultimately I'd like to just run on one power supply.

I think this is the least complicated/expensive way to upgrade for now - I already have the 24V supply enroute. Just need to find an appropriate SSR and possibly 12v regulator.

[rpress]

We need more powah!

Here is the info in my 24V upgrade.
http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php ... 539#p50497" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fans need 12V for sure. The motors and hotend are debatable.

[Jimustanguitar]

Do you see any benefit with the "24v" V3 over the V2? Are you running 24V into RAMBo or using the SSR method? Can I just run everything off 24V if I toss a 12v regulator in the mix for the Mosfets and Motors & Logic connections, and connect the 24V straight to the Heated Bed connection? Or does the RAMBo have regulators built in for 12v motors, etc?

Definitely do the V3 over the V2, the heating traces on the bed are spiraled for a more even temperature across the bed.

For the money that it costs, I'd definitely advise going with an SSR. The Rambo can handle the current, but it's toeing the line without having a better way to cool it.

I just ordered a 24>12v converter to run my Rambo with (so that my fans and LEDs get 12v still). I'm going to try running a single 24v supply for everything soon. Several others have done this already. I'll let you know how it goes.


*edit* check out the RPress link. That's the right way to do it!

[0110-m-p]

Oly & JJ happen to be in my office. And we'd say under 10 minutes at 24V. The resistance increases as the temperature increases. So heating will always slow down some as it gets hotter.

Under 10 minutes to what temperature?

Is it safe to assume that there has been no testing done on the performance of the R3 bed at 24V?

[theverant]

Oly & JJ happen to be in my office. And we'd say under 10 minutes at 24V. The resistance increases as the temperature increases. So heating will always slow down some as it gets hotter.

Under 10 minutes to what temperature?

Is it safe to assume that there has been no testing done on the performance of the R3 bed at 24V?

They are fairly nebulous about what V3 is actually good for, so it's safe to assume you are on your own.

We seem pretty much on par for setup and plans for the future (as per your tag) so we should definitely keep in touch.

[0110-m-p]

Oly & JJ happen to be in my office. And we'd say under 10 minutes at 24V. The resistance increases as the temperature increases. So heating will always slow down some as it gets hotter.

Under 10 minutes to what temperature?

Is it safe to assume that there has been no testing done on the performance of the R3 bed at 24V?

They are fairly nebulous about what V3 is actually good for, so it's safe to assume you are on your own.

We seem pretty much on par for setup and plans for the future (as per your tag) so we should definitely keep in touch.

Agreed. I have been wanting to buy the Rev3 to try it, but with all the other "experimental" upgrades in the pipeline, I would love one that I know will work before dropping the cash. I feel like I need to do it anyway, just so that I can share the info with everyone else with the same question.