Glass Fail!!

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The Rigger
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Glass Fail!!

Post by The Rigger »

This is weird...

Printing a large-ish flat piece out of ABS today; glue stick for adhesion, bed runs at 80°C, no problems at all up until now. Finishd the print, let the piece cool down to room temperature, waiting for the piece to break away from the glass plate...

*Pop!*

It split away, all right... But it took a big chip of the glass surface with it; the borosilicate plate appears to have delaminated or a chip split out of it or something... At any rate, there's a big ol' chip hollowed out of one face of my OEM Rostock glass bed!

WTF??? Wha'd I do? Anyone else ever have that happen?

Time to find a non-glass alternative...
-Dave
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IMBoring25
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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by IMBoring25 »

Yes, others have had it happen. There are threads about it. I've been using Kapton tape on mine from day 1, so when I have similar problems I just pull the remaining tape off and reapply new tape. I don't know if PEI is subject to this or not.

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thedoble
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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by thedoble »

Yep I have had this problem. I no longer use *any* force when removing prints from the bed. I put them in the freezer for a few minutes and let them pop off on their own.

I don't think this solves the problem completely. I tend to see the build plate as a consumable - it's only good for a certain amount of cycles.

My Rostock has almost 30 days printing time on it, and I've only had one occurrence where some chips came out of the build plate. I've flipped over and been printing on the other side since about 22 days of print time. I expect to have to replace the built plate completely in the next 10-20 days of print time.
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Jimustanguitar
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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by Jimustanguitar »

The instructions for some of the Taulman products have you step down the bed heat gradually to keep from crunching the glass... I wonder if it's not a bad idea for all prints. Might have to drop the bed to something like 40c for about 5 minutes before killing the heat in the end GCode.

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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by Xenocrates »

I took the approach of taking an aluminum plate, facing/sanding it flat, and then putting PEI on it. I get nice even temperatures, which are more accurate to the bed surface than a glass plate would provide, have very little that can break, and it's faster to heat up than glass+heatspreader (But slower than just glass. Which is alright, since I can use a lower set temp for the same surface temp, and need a generally lower surface temp for the PEI)
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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by duvdev »

I have 6 rostock max V2 and I used to changes boro glass every 30 days or so.
in the last 4 month I am using 4 mm Tempered glass without any problem. I am printing ABS,POLYCARBONATE and PEEK and all my Tempered glasses are as new as in the day I got them. It cost me about 18$ per one unit.

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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by Eaglezsoar »

duvdev wrote:I have 6 rostock max V2 and I used to changes boro glass every 30 days or so.
in the last 4 month I am using 4 mm Tempered glass without any problem. I am printing ABS,POLYCARBONATE and PEEK and all my Tempered glasses are as new as in the day I got them. It cost me about 18$ per one unit.


Could you reveal the source for the tempered glass or is it a local Company that doesn't do internet sales.
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Jimustanguitar
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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by Jimustanguitar »

I've got a couple of these: http://www.robotdigg.com/product/490/30 ... D+Printing
You have to order enough product to make the shipping worthwhile.

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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by The Rigger »

Eaglezsoar wrote:Could you reveal the source for the tempered glass or is it a local Company that doesn't do internet sales.


I found I could order 310mm x 4mm tempered glass discs from my local glass-&-screen shop, but they didn't stock it; it had to come from their factory, as they have to cut the disc and *then* temper the glass.

Today I ordered a round GeckoTek HT build plate instead.
-Dave
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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by The Rigger »

thedoble wrote:Yep I have had this problem. I no longer use *any* force when removing prints from the bed. I put them in the freezer for a few minutes and let them pop off on their own.


I've tried both the freezer trick and soaking the plate in hot water with a little dishsoap added. So far the freezer trick has failed, pretty much every time. Generally I've found that if I just let the plate cool on it's own to room temperature, and that seems to work as well as any other method.

thedoble wrote:My Rostock has almost 30 days printing time on it, and I've only had one occurrence where some chips came out of the build plate. I've flipped over and been printing on the other side since about 22 days of print time.


That's primarily what I was wondering; my chip is around 30mm x 60mm—quite large—about 1mm deep, and pretty much dead-center of the build plate. If I flip the plate over, will having that large a cavity in the glass affect how it heats up?
-Dave
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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by Polygonhell »

It's a common problem with tempered glass, RichRap has a recent post about how he damaged the "Optical Quality" Tempered build plate on his Big Box 3d.

I've never heard of a none tempered glass plate doing this and very few of them breaking because of the hot cool cycles, and they were used for years on almost every printer before tempered glass came into vogue 2 or 3 years ago.
FWIW I don't think it has anything to do with the removal method, I suspect the tempering process introduces stress in the glass and if you get unlucky, the stress turns into a crack and results in the glass fragment being stuck to the print. I know that you cannot cut tempered glass after the tempering process, which implies an increase in the brittleness.

I will warn you that I sourced some custom cut tempered glass for an older printer a few years ago and was surprised how not flat it was when it arrived.

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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by thedoble »

The Rigger wrote:
thedoble wrote:My Rostock has almost 30 days printing time on it, and I've only had one occurrence where some chips came out of the build plate. I've flipped over and been printing on the other side since about 22 days of print time.


That's primarily what I was wondering; my chip is around 30mm x 60mm—quite large—about 1mm deep, and pretty much dead-center of the build plate. If I flip the plate over, will having that large a cavity in the glass affect how it heats up?


I'm sure it will, however I haven't noticed any problems with my prints as a result.

I actually purchased a replacement boro plate immediately after my first glass incident. I haven't unboxed it yet as the 'broken' plate has been working fine. If I start to notice adhesion problems, then I'll replace it.
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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by Windshadow »

I have had good luck with a spritz of electronics testing freeze spray at the edge of the print once it has cooled to near ambient.
http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Supe ... eeze+spray
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Re: Glass Fail!!

Post by duvdev »

Eaglezsoar wrote:
duvdev wrote:I have 6 rostock max V2 and I used to changes boro glass every 30 days or so.
in the last 4 month I am using 4 mm Tempered glass without any problem. I am printing ABS,POLYCARBONATE and PEEK and all my Tempered glasses are as new as in the day I got them. It cost me about 18$ per one unit.


Could you reveal the source for the tempered glass or is it a local Company that doesn't do internet sales.



I got it from a local store.
You can find it almost at every work shop that can cut a glass and temper it

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