ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

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monkeyfett8
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ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by monkeyfett8 »

I have been trying to get my new Rostock Max V2 that I built to print anything since completion. It all seems to work fine, the plate is calibrated and radiused, the temperatures seem to be set okay (both built in thermistors and my IR thermometers). I have the plate set to 80C and the nozzle to 228C. I have tried higher bed temps and some nozzle differences but nothing seems to help. My first few attempts worked fine but the part ended up popping off the surface. The bottom pulled up at the corners and eventually broke free. Now though, I can't even get a first layer to stick. I can't even get any line to stick more than about 10mm before it breaks free. I have tried first layer thicknesses from .1mm (nothing comes out) to .6mm (it just drops and curls on the nozzle barely even touching the plate.). In any case where the extrusion comes out it just forms a tangle around the nozzle. I'm using a stock nozzle which is I guess 0.5. I forget and I can't read any number on it.

For my bed treatment I'm using the disappearing purple glue stick as the build guide instructed. I just get nothing it seems. It just seems to be getting worse. Everything I've been searching for doesn't seem to help. Idk. I'm at the end of my rope...

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nitewatchman
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by nitewatchman »

With the limited information, I would suggest that your z zero is set too high and possible you horizontal radius is not optimal. First layer regardless of the programed size should have the cross section of a round cornered rectangle.

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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by Polygonhell »

I would tend to agree, that the Z height sounds like it needs to be set, it's probably too high, but too low will also present in a similar fashion, if there is no space for the filament to form a line it will tend to roll up behind the moving head, assuming it doesn't just jam first.

monkeyfett8
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by monkeyfett8 »

So my Z heights have been set by a 0.004 in (.102mm) feeler gauge. The posts were set to that height (when hot) and the radius raised until I got the center bed position to match the gauge. It seems to track pretty well across the bed for height so I doubt it's that. That was also why I had played with the first layer height to try and account for that anyway.

The filament appears to me coming out about right it just never seems to stick to the surface. I've seen it squished thin (but still curl) to being about round and not sticking. It seems like it should be a value in between where it should be working. I think the problem must be more in the surface treatment. I don't understand exactly what I'm looking for. What should the surface be like? Is there some quality I can see or measure that would facilitate a better adhesion? The glue stick tends to just feel dry and maybe lightly more rough than the bare glass (though not tested at temp). Should it be something else? I guess I really don't understand.

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barry99705
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by barry99705 »

Try some blue painter's tape. I could never get anything to stick to the glass either. I actually have a piece of buildtack stuck to the glass at the moment. It's not the right size, but for now it's working quite well.
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Eaglezsoar
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by Eaglezsoar »

One of the best things to help adhesion is a layer of PEI. Before using that though I found that the Suave hairspray in the purple can worked really well to increase adhesion. Just spray a couple of light coats on the glass and let it dry.

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thedoble
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by thedoble »

I use standard UHU glue stick and have no problems with ABS or PLA curling when printing. It sounds as though you have calibrated the z height accurately, but have you tried using a piece of paper? You should be able to slide the paper under the nozzle and feel it grab firmly, but not so much that you can't get the paper back under the nozzle.

Secondly, have you calibrated your nozzle size, average filament width (after measuring) and your extruder E-steps in EEPROM? If any of these are wrong it could cause the filament not to stick.
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nitewatchman
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by nitewatchman »

monkeyfett8 wrote:So my Z heights have been set by a 0.004 in (.102mm) feeler gauge. The posts were set to that height (when hot) and the radius raised until I got the center bed position to match the gauge. It seems to track pretty well across the bed for height so I doubt it's that. That was also why I had played with the first layer height to try and account for that anyway.

The filament appears to me coming out about right it just never seems to stick to the surface. I've seen it squished thin (but still curl) to being about round and not sticking. It seems like it should be a value in between where it should be working. I think the problem must be more in the surface treatment. I don't understand exactly what I'm looking for. What should the surface be like? Is there some quality I can see or measure that would facilitate a better adhesion? The glue stick tends to just feel dry and maybe lightly more rough than the bare glass (though not tested at temp). Should it be something else? I guess I really don't understand.


If you use a feeler gauge (I use a .004" also) suggest that you then lower the nozzle to -0.10mm and set z zero there.

No matter what you call out for a first layer height the nozzle will be raised that must above the surface. A layer height of .1mm with a first layer multiplier of 200% plus the .004" feeler gauge to set zero will place the nozzle .3m above the bed on the first pass.

Also I used a lot of hair spray before moving to PEI. I found that Garnier Fructis Volumizing Bamboo Anti-Humidity Spray with Natural Bamboo Extract for "that bounce back hold" worked very well. You might also just try lowering your z zero 0.05mm at a time and see if the adhesion get better or worse. You will get feedback after two layers or so.

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blackrabt
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by blackrabt »

Elmer's Disappearing Purple glue sticks are my weapon of choice. Good to know about the feeler gauge offset.

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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by crpickard »

Thank you for the tips nitewatchmen! It got me printing!

monkeyfett8
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by monkeyfett8 »

Thanks guys. These tip seemed to get me going. I guess it was too far. I'm not entirely sure why i was so far but I think I should be okay now. Thanks.

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nitewatchman
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by nitewatchman »

Fantastic, like the guy says - I love it when a plan comes together!

gary

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nitewatchman
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by nitewatchman »

monkeyfett8 wrote:Thanks guys. These tip seemed to get me going. I guess it was too far. I'm not entirely sure why i was so far but I think I should be okay now. Thanks.


I have found that it is all about learning to read the first layer. I will sometimes print one pass, abort the print and then pull that single layer from the bed and measure the thickness with a digital caliper or plain old micrometer. Sometimes interesting to see what it really is verses what I thought it was.

Also when changing from ABS (235C/100C) to PLA (205C/70C) I change the z height by 0.10mm to 0.15mm to maintain the same layer thickness.

It's all about the first layer!

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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by buggy »

nitewatchman wrote:If you use a feeler gauge (I use a .004" also) suggest that you then lower the nozzle to -0.10mm and set z zero there.

So i have the same feeler gauge and im trying to calibrate, do you zero it to the feeler gauge then calibrate zero again by just going down to -0.10mm?

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DeltaCon
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by DeltaCon »

I had some real sticky(ness) problems when I started printing too. Nothing seemed to stick to the glass.
Now for PLA I have real good adhesion with UHU or Elmer's Purple etc... smeared on some thin self-adhesive transfer tape that is used for vinyl signing purposes too. It looks just like ordinary cheap painterstape, but is very handy because I have it in widths that cover the whole bed at once, with no seames, and because I have that just laying around ;-)
For ABS I followed the ABS slurry method, and even that only worked (very well!) after I had roughen-up the glass plate with a sanderpad. So now I use the glass bed on one side for ABS and with the help of ABS slurry, and the other side with painterstape and gluestick for PLA. Both methods require pretty much force to get the parts off, so I am not afraid of parts getting loose anymore!
I am DeltaCon, I have a delta, my name is Con, I am definitely PRO delta! ;-)
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PS.: Sorry for the avatar, that's my other hobby!

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nitewatchman
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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by nitewatchman »

buggy wrote:
nitewatchman wrote:If you use a feeler gauge (I use a .004" also) suggest that you then lower the nozzle to -0.10mm and set z zero there.

So i have the same feeler gauge and im trying to calibrate, do you zero it to the feeler gauge then calibrate zero again by just going down to -0.10mm?



Exactly

BUT you must be very sure that the nozzle is just touching the feeler and not pressing down on it. You could be tight by quite a bit without appreciably increasing the drag.

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Re: ABS Won't stick and curls on nozzle.

Post by Johncoffee »

Just to make it perfectly clear: Set Zero at the 0.1mm feeler gauge and then lower again -0.1mm and zero again, in order to get a real zero for the nozzle tip exactly at the glass plate?

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