EMP killed my build

[RedWood]

I have a small space heater i like to keep at my feet. Every time I turn it on or off i get a good loud pop out of my desktop speakers. This is how I know it gives off a pulse every time its switched on or off.

For the second time now, at the same instant i turned off my heater, my Rostock Max print stopped dead.

In order to get it moving again, i have to unplug the usb and plug it back in, twice. That fact doesn't have any implications, I just find it odd.

I know what the problem is. What im wondering is if I take to time to enclose the RAMBO in a metal shield, will it solve this or will it continue too draw emp in through the wires running about the machine?

[cambo3d]

What you are experiencing is a spike or surge in your power outlet, try running your space heater on a different circuit. or moving your machine to a room more comfortable for you.
i wouldn't call this emp.

[jesse]

The arduino could be protecting the board from damage. 2nd for putting them on separate circuits.

[Jimustanguitar]

if I take to time to enclose the RAMBO in a metal shield, will it solve this or will it continue too draw emp in through the wires running about the machine?

You're not experiencing a wireless/electromagnetic thing at all, it's a surge coming through the wired line voltage like cambo said. You could try a power conditioner or isolation transformer, but neither of those really addresses the cause of the issue, just hides the symptoms.

I'm curious if it's the RAMBo or your computer that's "locking up" though. Are you using a laptop that's plugged into the wall when this happens, or is the printer the only thing connected to AC power? I know that if you're printing from an SD card and you connect Repetier, it will freeze the current print. Perhaps a stutter in USB caused by a spike does the exact same thing...

[geneb]

Considering that the only credible source of EMP that I know of is the detonation of a nuclear weapon, I wanna know where you got the Pipboy you used to post here and which Vault you're from.

g.

[foshon]

I have a small space heater i like to keep at my feet. Every time I turn it on or off i get a good loud pop out of my desktop speakers. This is how I know it gives off a pulse every time its switched on or off.

For the second time now, at the same instant i turned off my heater, my Rostock Max print stopped dead.

In order to get it moving again, i have to unplug the usb and plug it back in, twice. That fact doesn't have any implications, I just find it odd.

I know what the problem is. What im wondering is if I take to time to enclose the RAMBO in a metal shield, will it solve this or will it continue too draw emp in through the wires running about the machine?

I don't think that's the issue, but it's your world.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 2109,d.b2I

[RedWood]

A voltage spike was the first thing that came to mind but the more i thought about it the less likely it seemed. My desktop, printer and heater are on the same circuit, but the RAMBo is powered off usb. The spike would have had to pass through my high end psu and then the mother board. The psu should have smoothed any significant spike. Then the mother board itself mush have a slew of voltage regulation for it to pass through.
If if was a voltage spike it's likely to have come through the printers psu. It's a cheep psu but it should still smooth out a spike greatly. Then it would have to jump any protection the RAMBo has separating the high amperage portion from the low amperage portion.
It seems more likely to me that it got a few micro volts down the thermistor wire and tripped a safety or stumbled things enough to cause a crash.

Ether way, it's way to sensitive.

I'd need a 50' cord to get the heater on a different circuit so it looks like i'll be going without for the time being. I'm starting to fear what the air conditioner will do...

[cambo3d]

A voltage spike was the first thing that came to mind but the more i thought about it the less likely it seemed. My desktop, printer and heater are on the same circuit, but the RAMBo is powered off usb. The spike would have had to pass through my high end psu and then the mother board. The psu should have smoothed any significant spike. Then the mother board itself mush have a slew of voltage regulation for it to pass through.
If if was a voltage spike it's likely to have come through the printers psu. It's a cheep psu but it should still smooth out a spike greatly. Then it would have to jump any protection the RAMBo has separating the high amperage portion from the low amperage portion.
It seems more likely to me that it got a few micro volts down the thermistor wire and tripped a safety or stumbled things enough to cause a crash.

Ether way, it's way to sensitive.

I'd need a 50' cord to get the heater on a different circuit so it looks like i'll be going without for the time being. I'm starting to fear what the air conditioner will do...

well its not emp, i can promise you that. (go plug in a usb device to the same circuit as your heater and see what happens to the usb device)

I would power your rambo through the 12v supply rather than the usb port. its a simple jumper swap on the rambo board. You posted on here asking for advise or help. Whether you choose to believe it, is up to you.

[RedWood]

I'll switch the jumper. At least that will limit its dependencies to one cord. Thanks for the input. I'm going to trust you guys are right till I have a real reason think other wise. I'm not exactly an electrical engineer. lol

Thanks

[cassetti]

Haha, sounds like an issue I have with my Makerbot Replicator - damn thing is so sensitive to static discharge that I need to tip-toe around my printer in the office at work! Imagine leaving your office for 3 hours to come back and find the printer frozen mid-print, with both hotend and hotbed still active, but nothing else moving! Yeah, surpised I haven't started a fire or killed the makerbot yet!

[foshon]

Haha, sounds like an issue I have with my Makerbot Replicator - damn thing is so sensitive to static discharge that I need to tip-toe around my printer in the office at work! Imagine leaving your office for 3 hours to come back and find the printer frozen mid-print, with both hotend and hotbed still active, but nothing else moving! Yeah, surpised I haven't started a fire or killed the makerbot yet!

I've seen people have similiar issues on the RR forums and wondered if a ESD wrist strap tied to part of the machine would help.

[JohnStack]

This whole thread as well as the one about the howling printer need a new category.

[dsnettleton]

It's clearly not an actual EMP, but it could easily be signal interference from static. If your speakers pick it up, that's very likely the case, as they can be especially sensitive to EM fluctuations. This is why the insides of (quality) electric guitars are shielded, creating the Faraday cage which foshon referenced. If you want to shield your RAMBo as you suggested, it will protect it from static interference. Just be sure that you protect it from making contact with the shielding itself (though ground wires might make an exception). Shorting current across the shielding could be very bad. If you're looking for a method to shield an enclosure, stewart macdonald has copper tape and (rather pricey) matte-black conductive paint that should do the trick quite nicely.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics ... _Tape.html
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics ... Paint.html

[RedWood]

I'm getting the felling that everyones idea of EMP is different from mine. EMP, what given off every time you turn something on or off. What is given off by the wires of our steppers. What your wifi router uses to communicate.
At some point I'll fashion a shield (cage). The tape might be simple way of dealing with it. Thanks for the link.

[cambo3d]

there is only one definition of emp = electromagnetic pulse usually given off my nuclear blast. (not likely in your heater) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

esd - electrostatic discharge.

electrical noise is whats common in electrical wiring/electrical devices due to bad grounds and/or magnetic fields. shielding usually helps this

wifi is something different those are wireless signals operating at different frequencies.

seems like you got some researching to do..

[RedWood]

I checked it out and ya, it seem "EMP" is reserved for large pulses. I was using the term in the literal form. Our routers do use pulses of EM to communicate. Our TV remotes as well. Frequency and magnitudes of power don't change that.

[cambo3d]

I checked it out and ya, it seem "EMP" is reserved for large pulses. I was using the term in the literal form. Our routers do use pulses of EM to communicate. Our TV remotes as well. Frequency and magnitudes of power don't change that.

wifi routers use radio frequency not pulses

tv remotes use infared light waves, not radio frequency, not EM as you call it.

but like i said believe what you want....

[geneb]

I'm with cambo3d on this one.

73 de N7MOS.

g.

[foshon]

[img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8538/8694378590_ed968972f8.jpg[/img]
redwood by foshon, on Flickr

[RedWood]

Both radio frequency waves and infrared light waves are EM (electro magnetism). And it's not the Koreans, it's those sneaky Dutch.

[geneb]

Yes, but EMP has a very, very specific meaning. Had you experienced EMP, every electronic device in your house and within some miles of the epicenter would be stone dead. (not to mention a distinct lack of living tissue within a smaller radius)

You're hearing a "pop" sound in your speakers because the power supply (wall wart, right?) doesn't have a suppression capacitor in it (or one that isn't sufficient for the task) and the voltage transient caused by the heater cycling is making it through the diode bridge and voltage regulator inside the wall wart. Take a peek at the RAMBo docs and move the correct jumper such that the RAMBo pulls its power from the DC power supply and not the USB cable. (I don't know which jumper it is off the top of my head, but it's marked on the printed picture that came with the board)

I'll stake my General class amateur radio license on the fact that what you're experiencing has nothing to do with radio waves moving through the air.

g.

[RedWood]

Yes, I do believe you guys in regards to the printer. The speakers (older Logitech 5.1 system) may be a different story though. Cell phones also cause them crackle and his. Ether way, i don't give a shit about the speakers. I'll be switching the jumper the next time I have the enclosure off.
Thank your for the input everyone!

[cambo3d]

Both radio frequency waves and infrared light waves are EM (electro magnetism). And it's not the Koreans, it's those sneaky Dutch.

also the term electro magnetism refers to turning a metal object into a magnet via electricity.

[Craftgizmos]

Well, mine just started stopping mid-print. After about printing for 2 hours, the carriage stopped on the print, heat and bed on, g-code flashing through the log window [Repetier v0.85b with Polygonhell's firmware]. I paused the print and there is no command over the motors, just seeming dead. Have to disconnect and restart Repetier, get a lot of messages about turning the heaters off when I try to disconnect, and I already turned the heaters off, but that really didn't work, the red lights are still lit on the Rambo. It has done it a couple of times now. I have no space heater. I haven't noticed anything turning on or off. Does it make any difference that the rostock and the laptop are powered from the same wall outlet?
Is there a command to reset the Rambo or should I try pushing the little reset button, or restart like I've been doing?

Thanks.