Just can't get these prints to stick...

[Stevolution]

Hi all

Well, been tinkering around with the printer again.

PLA.... Just seems to prone to jamming for some reason.
ABS is far more useful for the items I want to print (custom brackets etc).

BUT... I just cannot get these damn prints to stick to the bed. Hotend at 228deg, start the bed at 100deg. I have tried dipping the bed temp after a few layers - no difference.
The prints are curling up in the corners after 15/20 layers. Some splitting on the layers as well.

Will a heated enclosure make any difference at all to this lifting/splitting? What temp to you hold the enclosure at?

I have tried ABS juice, UHU, PEI mat, hairspray.... nothing seems to hold it down after the print starts to gain height. ABS juice is the best, but it still lifts.

First layer seems to print OK. I ususally slow it to 50% speed for the first layer and that helps.

[barry99705]

I've found that with clean glass, put down blue painters tape, then wipe it down with a paper towel and alcohol, the tape will get kinda fuzzy, works best for me and abs. I have an enclosure, I guess it's heated, by the bed! I print with the bed at 85C this way. Once you get the part off the glass, you might need to soak it in warm water to get the tape off. The plastic seems to bond to the tape pretty well.

[Xenocrates]

I've found just having an enclosure to trap heat helps. I'm also surprised that you see better results with ABS juice than PEI. Personally, I run the bed at around 95 degrees (With PEI on an aluminum plate, no glass, mind you) Which ABS is it? What hotend is it? I'm assuming, given what I sort of remember and PLA jamming, that it's an E3D. Have you tried adding a Raft/Brim/Mouse ears to increase your surface area?

[IMBoring25]

The bed on my Mendel, at ABS printing temperature, eventually heats the enclosed volume to around 25C, which is enough to help. At that point it matters what ABS I'm using. Hatchbox does pretty well there, but I ran out of transparent white while Hatchbox didn't have any and got some from MakerGeeks, and even with the enclosure I'm losing the bigger prints to severe cracking between layers.

I believe those running actively-heated chambers tend to shoot for something between 45-55 C.

[Stevolution]

Mmm... it is frustrating. I packed it away for a good while, purely because I just could not get it dialled in.
It seems to curl off the bed very easily, which must be shrinkage.
Its an E3D hotend. ABS is the better filament for me anyway, as I found PLA to be too brittle for anything useful.
I tried floodling the hotplate with more ABS juice after the first 10 layers.... that helped a bit, but then you have to clean it up. All it did then however is split on the layers further up.
Have not tried painters tape. To be honest, I got sick of buying product after product trying to make it work.
I needed a bracket for a project of mine and spent an entire day trying to get it to print properly. Finally gave up and went to my workshop and made one in 15 minutes out of aluminium

[Stevolution]

OK. Had a go with blue painters tape. 8 layers in and one corner started to curl up
The rest of it seems stuck pretty well, so this must be a shrinkage issue?
I think I am almost out of ideas.
Only other option would be to buy and try different ABS, but I don't want to really throw yet more money at it.

[Stevolution]

Seeing as I have only ever had a roll of ABS for one supplier (3dfilaprint)... is it worth trying a different supplier?
Is there a great difference between ABS from different places?
Any recommendations for suppliers welcome. I did think of getting a E3d roll of filament.
Thanks

[dajay23D]

I'm surprised hairspray doesn't work. It works for me and it's the only thing that's worked actually. Adjust your z lower. You shouldn't have a problem. If you still do, buy BuildTak.

[Xenocrates]

It might be worth it to buy more ABS, I think SeemeCNC, E3D, and Taulman are going to be among the most reliable sources. So of those, pick the one which comes out cheapest for you. There are some rolls which don't seem to do very well unless you tweak them a lot, even down to chamber temperature, if that even works (I had a roll of Hatchbox red like that, for example)

[thedoble]

I think the problem isn't bed adhesion, but print shrinkage.

It doesn't matter how good your adhesion is, if the rest of the abs is shrinking, it's going to curl and pull it off the build plate.

I would try enclosing the printer bed. You can even use something as simple as some a3 sheets of paper stuck to the pylons.

I bought some of these, but I don't do a lot of abs prints -- https://www.doodaddoes.com.au/product/l ... -set-of-3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[gchristopher]

I frequently run into the same problem with corners pulling up on medium-large, solid pieces. There's definitely a high-risk point in the print, where it's maybe 3/8" thick, and the top layers are significantly cooler than the bottom of the piece that's being heated by the bed. Thermal contraction pulls the corners up, and that's the thickness where it's thick enough to have the temperature differential, but not yet thick enough to resist the bending force from its own structural strength.

I've found that if a print gets past this point and becomes strong enough on its own to resist bending, then corner lifting stops becoming a risk.

I think a heated enclosure is the #1 best improvement, but I've been able to work around it by adding draft protection (shower curtain/cardboard/whatever) and big adhesion pads to any high-risk corners, (like, 1" diameter or larger pads). On a PEI bed, that seems to be pretty reliable, and when it does fail, you get a nice satisfying *crack* sound when the pad rips off the bed, so there's no wondering if something went wrong.

Plus, all of your pieces have decorative Mickey Mouse ears growing cancerously off the corners!

Oh! The other thing that made made bracket printing a lot more tolerable was a volcano hot end. It just feels less bad when the semi-reliable prints are 2-3 hours instead of 8-12 because you're laying down filament that much faster. Absolutely worth it if you want beefy, sturdy parts.

[Stevolution]

Ok thanks guys.
I will get a new roll of ABS and enclose the printer temporarily.
I planned to build a super heated enclosure etc, but the constant print failing has made me halt spending on this hobby. Its proved to be pointless having such a huge print area, when it fails 20mm up!
Its certainly shrinkage that I think is my issue. How I can overcome that, I do not know.

[thedoble]

Enclose the print area, use less infill, or the best answer, use PLA

[3D-Print]

I have an enclosure and use PEI bed. The enclosure at 40-50 degrees C at the bed level, and the PEI fixes almost all layer separation and lifting off the bed.

My only issue has been during the cool of winter when the ambient temp is cool and there is temp variation in the chamber. When that happens I heat up the chamber with my halogen lights to prevent lifting. I also increase the temp of the PEI bed to 100 degrees C. As well make sure your Hot end is as cool as possible to minimize extrusion temp and flexing/lifting.

Here is my build thread and about where I build my enclosure and added the halogens (http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php ... =50#p63313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). The enclosure is jfettig's design.

The temperature readout is simply a probe at the bed level and is just a read out I have not set up anything to adjust the intensity of the halogens. Wouldn't be hard to automate but honestly it is quite easy for me to set and hold a temp steady with halogen dimmer.

Addendum: here is a link to the jfettig's enclosure (http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=7149" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

[rehabmax]

You can use a glue stick on top of the blue painter tape for ABS to stick better.

i have become a true believer of PLA for 99% of projects now. i print at 195 Cº with a bed temperature of 70 Cº This works out very well. I never have any jamming problems with the filament. Make sure the filament on the roll is free. i have had it get stuck when a band is stuck underneath another band of filament. Sometimes when the filament is rolled onto the spool it can twist on it. Is the path into the stepper motor clear and without any sharp bends? it should not matter whether you use PLA or ABS, it should not stick or jam in the tube.

A reason to use PLA is it has a lower meting temperature and it sticks right to the glass. No need for glue sticks or blue tape.

Sometimes going higher on the bed temperature is counter productive. it does not mean better adherence necessarily.

I also slowed the arm movement down from 300 mm/sec to 100 mm/sec. How have you set the layer fan(s) output. i put on 3 layer fans to get air moving in a converging pattern, then reduced the output to 60%. Too much cooling also is no good.

About every 2 weeks I check the skates for any loosening. Also run through the X,Y,Z and bed height adjustments.

After trial and error and several prints in the trash can I finally feel comfortable with my printing.