Heated bed replacement option?

User-Generated tips and tricks for the Rostock Max, Orion, H1.1, or H1 Printers
Post Reply
User avatar
Mike B
Printmaster!
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 1:10 pm
Location: West Lafayette, IN

Heated bed replacement option?

Post by Mike B »

I was researching other heated beds out there and came across the silicone ones. I was wondering if anyone had tried to adapt these to work with their delta. From what I've read they get up to 90C in 2 minutes. I have a Rev5 that takes 20 minutes to get to 90c and an hour to get to 110C if I throw a towel on the glass.

My idea was to come up with an adjustable height standoff that supports my copper heat spreader and fix this silicone heater to the bottom of the copper. Doing this I could get rid of the snowflake and the Onyx. I am looking for reasons why this wouldn't work or would be less than ideal. I haven't ordered one and have no idea if they really do work that well. I am trying to avoid going the 24v route since I just put in a brand new ATX and that didn't help much if at all.

They include a built in 100k thermistor and looks like they are $10 plus $16 for shipping. Please give me input if you have any. Thanks!

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Silicone ... 74961.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
silicone heater.JPG
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2631
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by Jimustanguitar »

I found some round ones on ebay, and inquired about making a 12" round one with a hole in the middle (for the thermistor leads) in the 3-400 watt range. Seems like it would cost between $30-60, if I'm remembering correctly.

RobotDigg also claims that they'll custom design silicone heater pads. I didn't go as far as getting a quote from him yet.

I haven't had the urge to do this as badly now that I've switched to a higher voltage power supply. No need to solve that problem any more.
User avatar
Generic Default
Printmaster!
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by Generic Default »

I think that stuff is squishy enough to get a lot more contact area with the build plate than hard PCB heaters. I'll get one in about three weeks for a custom delta printer.
Check out the Tri hotend!
dtgriscom
Printmaster!
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:15 pm
Location: Wakefield, MA
Contact:

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by dtgriscom »

Big question: how even is the heating? It's likely your copper will fix a variety of sins, but it would be good to know either way.
User avatar
Tonkabot
Printmaster!
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:28 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by Tonkabot »

Jimustanguitar wrote:I found some round ones on ebay, and inquired about making a 12" round one with a hole in the middle (for the thermistor leads) in the 3-400 watt range. Seems like it would cost between $30-60, if I'm remembering correctly.

RobotDigg also claims that they'll custom design silicone heater pads. I didn't go as far as getting a quote from him yet.

I haven't had the urge to do this as badly now that I've switched to a higher voltage power supply. No need to solve that problem any more.

I just got off the phone with a silicone heating pad guy. they can make 12" round ones for $50 in qty 10 - and that is a 120vac/240vac one. The point is you don't need a huge expensive 24v supply, you just plug it in (to a triac control driven by the rambo). The triac 'relay' control board could be $5 or so. (I am thinking the BOM is $3 for that, and I have designed them before)

It ends up being a cheaper than the Onyx even before you add the power supply to run it. In fact, if you have offloaded the bedheater current requirements from the main printer supply, the main printer could move to a smaller and cheaper supply - a laptop pregnant snake supply should be big enough for the motors, fans , and printhead since it doesn't have the bed heater.
BenTheRighteous
Printmaster!
Posts: 695
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:38 am

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by BenTheRighteous »

That sounds awesome! I don't what the pitfalls might be but at least it sounds like an idea worth investigating!
nitewatchman wrote:it was much cleaner and easier than killing a chicken on top of the printer.
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2631
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by Jimustanguitar »

If you're doing a group buy, count me in for one.
BenTheRighteous
Printmaster!
Posts: 695
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:38 am

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by BenTheRighteous »

I'd be down for one too, and hopefully the triac walkthrough would be forthcoming... :D
nitewatchman wrote:it was much cleaner and easier than killing a chicken on top of the printer.
User avatar
Tonkabot
Printmaster!
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:28 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by Tonkabot »

This is what I think it needs to end up looking like:
Of course he wants like $250 for a sample of 3. and I am sure for more than 10 the price goes down.

I have the hole in the middle 8mm. how little can it be?
bed_heater.png
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2631
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by Jimustanguitar »

What's actually inside of a silicone heating pad? For $250 I'd try burning the house down by making my own first :)
User avatar
KAS
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1157
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by KAS »

http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/electric-heating-pads" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; :)
User avatar
Tonkabot
Printmaster!
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:28 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by Tonkabot »

Jimustanguitar wrote:What's actually inside of a silicone heating pad? For $250 I'd try burning the house down by making my own first :)
I deal with prototypes all the time, and $250 for 3 is really not a bad price at all. Look at it this way: that is $83.33 for one. The Onyx runs for $69 for one.
Once you start getting actual quantities, prices drop. As a system, an AC bed heater does not need any huge DC current supply which will make it overall a lot cheaper.
Yes it will require a little module that has a Triac, an opto-coupled triac driver, and maybe a bit of a heatsink. (a triac burns about 1.6v off as heat. 1.6V * 4A is 6.4W for a 500W bed.)
It could be a problem if you want to UL list it [the triac module], because then you would have to run through the approvals. Might be why a lot of low volume manufactures use DC instead.
There would be AC SSR's available that would do the job, too. They seem to be about $6 for an infamous FOTEK brand one http://www.amazon.com/Bessky-TM-White-C ... ywords=ssr

I have a sample of one of these heaters here on my desk. It is 1mm thick, 6x6 inch square, flexible, 245W at 12V. It has a 1.5x1.5 inch area that is bumped up to 5mm thick for the wires.
This one has an adhesive backing, I don't think we would want that (At least not to affix it to the glass, maybe the snowflake). It would conform to the flat glass very well.
Etched Foil Elements
Beginning with a Durex engineered photo tool, Durex photo develops and then
chemically etches a highly precision, resistive foil circuit, to be vulcanized
internally into a silicone heating element. Durex’s silicone etched foil elements can
have internal element coverage of greater than 50% of the entire heating element
area. This coverage lowers the internal heating element temperature providing
longer heating element life. Etched foil elements are superior for high watt density and
higher temperature operation. In addition, because the circuit trace width can be varied in the design and manufacturing
process, etched foil elements are ideal for distributed watt densities within the same heating element. Durex’s
efficient production methods result in etched foil being the better choice for low cost, high volume runs of smaller size
heating elements
Then they bond it into fiber reinforced silicone.

Oh, he says it can run at up to 200c, but he doesn't like them run that hot contineously. The 110-130c for a HOT bed would be no problem. And it would reach that temp in minutes.


I don't think I would want to mess with a walmart heating pad. I don't think your going to find any that have 500w output for a square foot or so...
User avatar
KAS
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1157
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by KAS »

Ouch that can get expensive in a hurry, but I like the idea of having a built-in type k thermalcouple.

http://www.oemheaters.com/configurators/sr/config.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mac The Knife
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by Mac The Knife »

Durex? I thought they specialized in latex products, not silicone.
R-Max V2
Eris
Folger Tech FT-5 R2
User avatar
Tonkabot
Printmaster!
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:28 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by Tonkabot »

Mac The Knife wrote:Durex? I thought they specialized in latex products, not silicone.
Ha ha. Those turned up on me first search.

It is durexindustries.com.
User avatar
Tonkabot
Printmaster!
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:28 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Heated bed replacement option?

Post by Tonkabot »

KAS wrote:Ouch that can get expensive in a hurry, but I like the idea of having a built-in type k thermalcouple.

http://www.oemheaters.com/configurators/sr/config.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Expensive??? Once you get qty up over prototype stage it makes a less expensive and higher power system than the onyx
Post Reply

Return to “General Tips 'N Tricks”