PEI print bed surface experiments

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Eaglezsoar
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by Eaglezsoar »

Great news! And now the anticipation starts! Hopefully the test prints can begin once it cures.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by mhackney »

Yes, I am ready to give it a shot as soon as I get up. I already know the PEI is great to print on for PLA and ABS, now it's all about holding it down!

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by mhackney »

A little delay in the process. When I looked at the plate this morning I realized that the exposed edge of the PEI on the glass is vulnerable. So, I ran a bead of silicone around the edge of the glass to create a gasket to hold the edge better. This is much like grouting the edge of bath tile with silicone. I need to let this cure today.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by JohnStack »

Z-height in 0.91 is strange. Last week, for some reason, it ended up at 7. something - after Repetier pulled in the EEProm values. Needless to say I set it back but it was very strange - I don't think I made a typo...

Not sure who did the menuing on that one but there were some interesting choices made...
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mhackney
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And the verdict is....

Post by mhackney »

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s5/v116/p859804918-4.jpg[/img]

Success.

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v99/p685834460-4.jpg[/img]

I allowed the silicone bead to cure overnight. This morning I trimmed the PEI about .5mm from the glass using my bandsaw. It was quick work and no problems at all - cuts easily and a coping saw would work fine if you don't have a band saw.

After cutting, I sanded and put a slight bevel on top to relieve the edge.

So a few comments:

The silicone seems to hold quite well. I probably squeegeed much to thin, leave a little to get a good bond. When you weigh / press it down to the glass, any surface irregularities will be flattened.

To "clamp" put the PEI side down then put weights on top of the glass. I put a 12" disk of plywood on the glass and then put about 100 pounds of weight on that. 50 probably would suffice! After clamping like this, run a thin bead of silicone around the glass edge to bond it to the PEI. Allow to cure overnight.

Cut the PEI about .5mm from the glass and sand lightly to relieve and smooth the edge.

Be careful with silicone! If you get it on the PEI it will be a bear to remove completely and will affect parts sticking. It is easy to remove from the glass with a single edge razor blade.

Install with binder clamps like normal. The nice thing about this is, if I wanted to use the glass side with hairspray for instance, I can just flip it over.

I have successfully printed 1 set of parts for the tenkara line holders. I'll report back once I've printed a FEW parts.

cheers,
Michael

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by Eaglezsoar »

A very good job! They even look good on the aluminum - gives a nice golden touch.
We already know the stuff works with PLA and ABS.
My thin self adhesive PEI is supposed to be here Monday, I will let you know how that works out.
Again, a very good job!
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by mhackney »

So far I am very pleased with it. Even before I came up with a permanent attachment, I printed with it clipped and it holds and releases very nicely and leaves a great surface finish.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by Eaglezsoar »

mhackney wrote:So far I am very pleased with it. Even before I came up with a permanent attachment, I printed with it clipped and it holds and releases very nicely and leaves a great surface finish.
What is the release procedure?
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by mhackney »

I wait 30 seconds after the bed heater turns off and they pop right off. I then immediately turn on the bed in prep for the next print. I'll try to take a video, it is actually a pretty cool, crisp "pop" sound when parts come off!

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by Eaglezsoar »

mhackney wrote:I wait 30 seconds after the bed heater turns off and they pop right off. I then immediately turn on the bed in prep for the next print. I'll try to take a video, it is actually a pretty cool, crisp "pop" sound when parts come off!
You still using a 60c bed?
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by mhackney »

Eagle yes, I print PLA at 60°C bed temp.

Here is a [url=http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v103/o ... 09-215.mp4]short video[/url] showing how the parts pop off the plate. You can just here the Rostock homing when the video starts, the print had just completed. You can hear how the parts peel off the PEI, a nice crisp sound.

This part is a bit challenging to print / stick to the bed for several reasons. It does not have a solid bottom surface, that is a 25% rounded fill. Those little round squiggly fill lines cause all sorts of havoc if the part does not stick well. One of the parts looks like a flower petal, that one is also very difficult to print because these petals must remain dead flat (i.e. stuck to the print bed).

As you can see from the vide, mission accomplished!

cheers,
Michael

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by Holy1 »

I have been using the PEI too and it does work well. I also used Silicone - just regular silicone. I used the .03 thickness. T-glase sticks well at 55C, great shiny surface. My PCT fitting failed so I haven't tried ABS yet. On a different note does anyone know where you can get 4mm Quick Connect PTC Fitting in Canada? Would get them from the good folks at SeeMe but it takes 1 1/2 weeks shipping time from the US. My poor Orion is just itching to get back to printing!


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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by mhackney »

Regular silicone should work just fine, it all has a higher temp rating than we need. I put the matte surface up on mine to get a really nice non-glossy finish. It is very consistent and looks great. I've printed about 50 parts in various PLAs today so far with no failures and perfect "stickage" and release is a snap (no pun intended).

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PEI rocks!

Post by mhackney »

All I can say is, now that I've printed PLA exclusively on PEI all weekend - 100s of parts, it totally rocks. No failed prints, parts come off with a snap and the surface finish is superb.

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s5/v125/p201960688-4.jpg[/img]

And there is minimal prep before starting a print - a swipe with isopropyl alcohol (3-5 drops) on a paper towel and you are good to go.

One thing about removing parts that is interesting and neat. All you need to do is start to lift a corner or edge and the part just "POPS" off. Very easy and no damage to the surface or part.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by Eaglezsoar »

Good news! Finally something that works and is consistent. Your paper idea was great, but is now second best.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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The paper worked very well but required more prep and a little more work. This PEI is basically print and go!

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by McSlappy »

Wow, just found this thread... Awesome stuff! Now I know what my next upgrade is. As soon as I get PLA printing as well as mhackney does :/
I loved my Rostock so much I now sell them in Oz :)
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by Eaglezsoar »

McSlappy wrote:Wow, just found this thread... Awesome stuff! Now I know what my next upgrade is. As soon as I get PLA printing as well as mhackney does :/
Everyone on this forum would like to print PLA as well as MHackney does!
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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First print on the 0.003" PEI is in progress. Doing a set of 12 mag arm ends, which have been to-date uncooperative printing in black seemecnc ABS on hairspray or gluestick or window tint film - they come off about 5-7mm into the print.

Untreated PEI at 110C? Sticking like a champ with only a few layers to go.

One question though - I applied the film straight up (no soap/water) and got a few small bubbles that I had to slit/press out. Anyone know if that acrylic 3M adhesive they're using is compatible with soap/water application? I've got one more 0.003" piece to use when this one wears out or I muck it up.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by wildideas1 »

Bdjohns: where did you get the pei, did it come with the 3m adhesive backing on the piece. Iwas going to ask how were you keeping it fromheat warping at 110c , are you running abs currently on the material
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by bdjohns1 »

CS Hyde. I think the link is back on page 6 or so of the thread. It's got an acrylic adhesive on it that's similar to what's on Kapton tape, so it sticks under heat.

I just finished printing some of the magnetic rod ends on it in ABS. After the job, the pieces released pretty easily once the bed cooled down to 90C or so. The adhesive has some give to it at that temperature - don't pull too hard or you'll stretch the film.

I've got xnaron's effector printing now as a little bit tougher test, since that's big enough to warp possibly.

Edit: Here's the link to the material: http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/films/u ... h-adhesive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I got the 0.003" (cheapest one). In hindsight, thicker might be better.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by Glacian22 »

bdjohns1 wrote:It's got an acrylic adhesive on it that's similar to what's on Kapton tape, so it sticks under heat.
I think Kapton tape actually uses a silicone adhesive, so it's a little bit different...should still work just fine though. :D
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by bdjohns1 »

Glacian22 wrote:
bdjohns1 wrote:It's got an acrylic adhesive on it that's similar to what's on Kapton tape, so it sticks under heat.
I think Kapton tape actually uses a silicone adhesive, so it's a little bit different...should still work just fine though. :D
Close enough. They're both rated to high temperatures, although Kapton goes a little higher.

Interesting problem with printing an effector platform on PEI last night. It stuck TOO WELL. I couldn't get it to pop off last night with a plastic blade. PEI is supposed to be acetone resistant, so I'll see if I can get it to release that way tonight, or temperature cycle the bed.

I'm loving having a 24V supply on the bed now - 110C in a few minutes.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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bdjohns1 wrote:First print on the 0.003" PEI is in progress. Doing a set of 12 mag arm ends, which have been to-date uncooperative printing in black seemecnc ABS on hairspray or gluestick or window tint film - they come off about 5-7mm into the print.

Untreated PEI at 110C? Sticking like a champ with only a few layers to go.

One question though - I applied the film straight up (no soap/water) and got a few small bubbles that I had to slit/press out. Anyone know if that acrylic 3M adhesive they're using is compatible with soap/water application? I've got one more 0.003" piece to use when this one wears out or I muck it up.
I tried the soap and water and it just made the film curl up with absolutely no stickiness to it. I had no success at all using that method.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by bdjohns1 »

From a quick google, 3M suggests a pressurized dry autoclave to drive out bubbles. Yeah, I've got one of those handy.
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