Printing with Line trimmer

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by Generic Default »

Has anyone tried using nylon with support material yet? I can't get my effector platform to stay level across the entire print surface, but if I could, I would test dual extruders with ABS as support and nylon as the build material. Or maybe the other way around if I need fragile prints. Also, since trimmer line comes in different sizes, someone should test the 3mm red stuff.
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by cope413 »

Yep, just printed my first trimmer line print with support.

Not surprisingly, it's tough to remove at the point of interface with the print.

I took an old 60w soldering iron and attached an exacto knife blade to it with some stranded wire. At temperature it's a great cleanup tool for trimmer line. Cuts through nylon smoothly. Easy removal of the support material.
2013-10-11 14.14.55.jpg
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by Eaglezsoar »

Has anyone found the bulk .065" trimmer line in a different color besides blue?

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by cope413 »

I'm working with a mfg to produce (in order to sell) some virgin nylon in other colors. Will need some testers for samples. Shall I add you to the list of interested parties?
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by Eaglezsoar »

cope413 wrote:I'm working with a mfg to produce (in order to sell) some virgin nylon in other colors. Will need some testers for samples. Shall I add you to the list of interested parties?


I would be honored, blessed and excited to be on the list of interested parties. :)

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by Eric »

Eaglezsoar wrote:Has anyone found the bulk .065" trimmer line in a different color besides blue?


My guess is no, not without special ordering. In the trimmer industry, color seems to be used to quickly identify the line diameter.

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by Eaglezsoar »

Eric wrote:
Eaglezsoar wrote:Has anyone found the bulk .065" trimmer line in a different color besides blue?


My guess is no, not without special ordering. In the trimmer industry, color seems to be used to quickly identify the line diameter.

So that's why they only come in one color unless you change diameter. Thanks, I learn something new everyday.

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by Generic Default »

Can you add me to the list of testers once you get the samples? I'd be more than happy to do extensive print testing with any plastic you throw at me. So far I've printed nothing but blue trimmer line, and it would be nice to have several colors. I was considering buying 3mm PTCs and tubing so I could dual extrude 2 colors of nylon. Do you think you could get glass filled nylon too?

You seem to be very knowledgeable about plastics; are there any problems with glass filled plastics that would prevent us from printing them? I've been considering buying a bunch of GF30 nylon pellets to extrude my own filament with later this year. It just seems like glass filled nylon is better in every way, especially the reduced warping and increased strength it would provide.
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by maxman »

OK, I got some trimmer line ( mine is yellow in this Country )

Printed a few things, BUT. astonished how much "curl" and distortion I am getting. I will try to bake the filament tonight an see if it improves.

Just a question for the Trimmer Specialists out there,

My EZstruder does not 'grab' the thinner filament(1.6mm) very well with the result that the hot end (E3D) starves. The layer then fails and all goes to the dogs...

Do you think the moisture on the surface is causing this?
or

Is my temp too low (260) and the hot end jamming.


Will I need to go for a GREG's extruder ?

IMG_00000553.jpg

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by lordbinky »

I was being impatient (I find it one of my better qualities, I learn so many lessons this way) as usual, so I put my trimmer line in the oven for 300°F and left it for some time and it turned it brownish. Besides that is printed great (for nylon) and is pretty much a requirement for filament. Next set I did 225°F and some amount of time. I would occasionally go check on it and let in some drier air, I could feel the air in the oven had more moisture. The filament will lose it's sheen when it's dry.

Drying does help the extruder too, make sure the hobbed bolt is clean, you'll have to clean it each time it eats a chunk of filament. I just have a toothbrush next to the printer and the cover off my ezstruder at this point.

Until you narrow it down:
I'd raise the current setting in the firmware for the motor to 190 if it's lower than that, it'll get warm but should be fine while you narrow down the filament issue. I have a small fan blowing on my extruder motor so I have had it set higher than that for awhile.

Go ahead and lower your retract speeds if you are using any retraction, I'd say just half it initially, then raise it to see if the problem returns.

Redo your EZ struder spring tension and check the hobbed bolt alignment, using a smaller diameter filament just makes alignment that much more important.

Check your bowden tube fittings and make sure they aren't causing any troubles. I had my bowden tube not sit just right in the hot end and caused me all sorts of headaches, and on the fourth time of checking the connector it all cleared up.

I think the yellow filament here is .045in (1.14mm), I might have to try it after seeing that yellow.

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by cope413 »

First, yes, I'm still working through some logistical issues with the supplier, but I'll definitely be reaching out to the forum for willing testers.

Second, glass-filled poses a few issues, but I think it may be possible - and the benefits are obviously enticing. The main issue I see would be the consistency of the fiber length, and the consistency of the mix.

We use PA66 with 25% fiber in our injection molds. We had to go through a few different blends to get it "right". Too fibrous and the parts didn't look good aesthetically. Not enough and we had too much shrinkage and/or not enough strength.

Too fibrous in the filament and I think jams would become an issue. If it wasn't very consistent, you would have sections of line with lots of fiber, and some without much - and that would mean certain parts of the print would be cooling at different rates and bring us back to the same issue contraction/warp.

The other thing that I'm not sure about is the fiber itself. Typical fiberglass is mostly silicon dioxide based and has a glass transition temp somewhere north of 1000C. The heat capacity of a fiber blend would be very different (higher) than virgin, and it wouldn't surprise me if the current hot ends wouldn't be up to the task.

That being said, even a 5% blend would likely yield pretty significant benefits in both strength and thermal expansion properties, and I'd like to think that there's a way to extrude a 5% PA blend on a hobby level printer.


As for binky and max's issues, I'm pretty surprised. I'm not on my 5th, yes 5th, 3lb spool of the blue desert extrusion stuff, and I think I've had 2 parts I had warp issues with. Both my fault for not having glue stick all the way out to the edges of the print.

I've found it much easier and more forgiving than ABS in the warp department.

2013-10-17 11.17.12.jpg



This guy is perfect and water tight.

I've found that there's no need to go lower than .3mm layers. The vertical resolution at .35 is just as good as ABS at .2mm.

Binky, first off, that's way too hot for drying nylon. 150-170F is where you should be. 4-6 hours will do the trick. Industrial desiccant dryers of nylon pellets run at 70C and get moisture content to <0.2% in 4 hours or less.

I've found that 80C bed with a healthy layer of glue stick works wonderfully for first layer adhesion. I drop it to 70-75C after the first layer. I set my hotend to 265 for the first layer (at my print speeds, it holds at 260-261), and then drop it to 260 for the rest of the print (it stays between 255-258).

Below 255 and you're not going to get optimal layer adhesion. As long as you don't push it to 280C, the nylon will be fine.
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by lordbinky »

cope413 wrote:Binky, first off, that's way too hot for drying nylon. 150-170F is where you should be. 4-6 hours will do the trick. Industrial desiccant dryers of nylon pellets run at 70C and get moisture content to <0.2% in 4 hours or less.

:lol: I said I was impatient....Doubling the temp does cut the time in half just fine...sometimes. Adventure!

cope413 wrote:I've found that 80C bed with a healthy layer of glue stick works wonderfully for first layer adhesion. I drop it to 70-75C after the first layer.


I tried that and it didn't consistantly work for me. I have some UHU glue sticks coming in that may fix that. In the meantime elmer's glue sticks on blue tape was a hastle but at least reliable. Still, I went back to abs for now because a little hairspray is so much easier.

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by cope413 »

I'm using Scotch "permanent" glue sticks.

I also forgot an important setting. I set initial layer to 150% extrusion. Helps a lot to get that first layer down and stuck well.
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by Eaglezsoar »

Cope413 says: "As for binky and max's issues, I'm pretty surprised. I'm not on my 5th, yes 5th, 3lb spool of the blue desert extrusion stuff, and I think I've had 2 parts I had warp issues with. Both my fault for not having glue stick all the way out to the edges of the print.
I've found it much easier and more forgiving than ABS in the warp department.
I've found that 80C bed with a healthy layer of glue stick works wonderfully for first layer adhesion. I drop it to 70-75C after the first layer. I set my hotend to 265 for the first layer (at my print speeds, it holds at 260-261), and then drop it to 260 for the rest of the print (it stays between 255-258).
Below 255 and you're not going to get optimal layer adhesion. As long as you don't push it to 280C, the nylon will be fine."



You may have covered this but I missed it.
When do you apply the glue stick, when the bed is cold or when it is hot?

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by lordbinky »

Most people I've read say they apply the glue stick hot so it dries faster. I forget where I read one person say they do it at 45°c and wait for it to dry, then stop heating the bed. Once it is under 40°C they would be fine to print.

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by Eaglezsoar »

lordbinky wrote:Most people I've read say they apply the glue stick hot so it dries faster. I forget where I read one person say they do it at 45°c and wait for it to dry, then stop heating the bed. Once it is under 40°C they would be fine to print.


Thanks! I'll give that a try.

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

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cope413 wrote:I'm working with a mfg to produce (in order to sell) some virgin nylon in other colors. Will need some testers for samples. Shall I add you to the list of interested parties?

I'm interested. I've measured a lot of filaments and looked at the mean and standard deviation and there seems to be a correlation between small sigma and nice prints. It doesn't matter if the average diameter is exactly 1.75, as long as it stays close to where it is, although I'd want to see it closer to 1.75mm so we don't have issues with it being too narrow for the hobbed bolt.

The other issue is how it's wound. I would like to be able to leave a print running while I watch TV for a few hours. My favorite filament is a consistent diameter, but it's wound on the spool in such a way that I have to mess with it periodically or it will bind up and shear off.

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by cope413 »

I like it 1.65 because the closer you get to 1.75, the more chance you have of getting an out of round section that won't feed through the opening to the bowden.

I've been measuring filaments from MatterHackers, Ultimaker, and taulman, as well as the trimmer line I've been playing with. I've been somewhat surprised to find that Taulman has, by a fairly considerable margin, the biggest variations in the filament, both from spool to spool and within each individual spool.

I had some T-glase measure from 1.63 to 1.76 on the same spool. That's just wayyy too much variance - almost 10%.

Most of the stuff I've measured, both PLA and ABS, is all +/- .02-.03mm
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by 626Pilot »

I have about 90% of a spool of T-Glase I can't even use because it keeps binding up against the Bowden tube. Anything I print is dead in a few layers. This is one of the reasons I'm going to put together a direct drive extruder mount.

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

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That will fix the dead print problem, but you'll still have out-of-round filament that will give you uneven prints
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by Eaglezsoar »

Just for an experiment I used the UHU glue and bought the heatbed to 100 degrees and tried to print.
The parts did not stick to the bed and they had a white foam under them which I figured was the glue
stick bubbling up. Hairspray works great at 100 degrees with PLA but the UHU glue doesn't like it. I
gather from reading these threads that the heatbed should be maintained at 40 - 45 degrees when using
these sticks. What about hairspray with nylon will that work or has no one tried it?

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by cope413 »

Hairspray didn't work with me, tried it a few times. I've had excellent success with Scotch Permanent glue sticks and a 75-80 bed. The glue does stick to the part, but comes off very easily with warm soapy water.
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by Eaglezsoar »

cope413 wrote:I'm using Scotch "permanent" glue sticks.

I also forgot an important setting. I set initial layer to 150% extrusion. Helps a lot to get that first layer down and stuck well.


I can only find the .28 oz sticks is that what you use?

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Post by cope413 »

Yep, 6 pack at wally world for like $5
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