Alibre Design and Rhino

[Bill Havins]

Hello to All,

After a couple of years of watching the growth and maturation of the 3D printer industry I finally took the plunge today and ordered a Rostock Max kit. After many years of experience in the CNC machining world, the delta approach of the Rostock Max "just made sense." So, here we go!

To get on topic, I have a number of years of experience using Alibre Design and RhinoCAD to develop designs for CNC production. I have used VisualMill (as a plug-in) as my CAM software. I will be approaching the Rostock Max based on that experience. We'll see if it helps or hinders.

From time-to-time I will report on use of Alibre and Rhino designs with my Rostock Max. If I can help others with their use of either of these CAD programs feel free to contact me.

Cheers!

Bill

[Bill Havins]

A quick note about Alibre Design (now known as Geomagic). If you have been running Alibre Design 2012 on an XP box you have a rude awakening waiting when you try to combine files into an "assembly." The short version of the story is you will not be able to save your work. Great, eh?

The new owners of Alibre Design is 3D Systems, the same company that bought B2B. You may be aware how they quickly abandoned support of the BFB printers? Well, they've done the same thing to Alibre Design owners running 2012 on an XP machine. Hundreds (thousands ?) of dollars down the drain.

I don't yet know what the "fix" might be. No one on the web knows.

The moral of the story? Buy/use some other CAD software if you have an XP box.

[geneb]

Bill, have you tried it under Windows 7?

I don't mean to sound like a jerk by any means, but Windows XP goes End of Life next year and it actually makes sense from a business perspective to no longer support commercial software for it.

If you haven't upgraded to Windows 7 yet, I'd make the leap. I've used it for a number of years and it's very nice. Avoid Vista and Windows 8 though.

g.

[Bill Havins]

Gene,

I agree that upgrading to a more modern OS is usually advisable - more features, modern technology support, etc., etc. But here is the point, Alibre 2012 was published as "compatible" with XP and many people bought it or paid their maintenance support fee with the expectation that it would run as advertised on an XP box. Upgrades of Alibre 2012 were published and, as users downloaded them, somewhere along the way the ability to save Assembly files (after adding assembly constraints) was lost. The ability to "build" assemblies from individual parts (i.e., "merged" files from individual parts files) has been one of Alibre's big selling points. But it is lost to XP users if they choose to run the "latest" version because they can't save their work.

It is not worth the hassle (pure hassle!) of upgrading to Windows 7 to be able to run Alibre 2012. The software is marginal (barely marginal) at best. There are so many gross errors in the way they label their basic orientations, for example, that it is obscene. They call an XY view a "Front View," an XZ view a "Top View," and so on. There is not a CNC machine in the world that is oriented the way they do it, and the user does not have the option to change the basic orientations. This issue is just the tip of the iceberg!

There are some nice features in Alibre...when they work. The software is prone to throw undecipherable error messages when the user attempts to modify features and there is no troubleshooting guide/manual.

I stuck with them way too long. That means paying well over $2500 by now. And then, without warning, they delete the ability to save files on a computer that they claim is supported. That is not good business sense. It's the behavior of a charlatan company.

It would be one thing if I was working on a machine that was held together with a hope-and-a-prayer. But I'm pounding away on a high-end Dell Workstation. It is not the computer, it is not the operating system, it is, instead, a company that does not care what cost or casualty they cause their users.

Rant over...and done with Alibre and 3D Systems.

Bill

Edit: I don't have the time to spend to do a Wndows 7 upgrade on my two workstations. I figure that is a three day brain-f***, coupled with having to pay for upgrades of some software (that will creep to an amount well over $3000). When you work for yourself you have to carefully choose where to spend your money. Alibre (and its perpetual maintenance fees) was a purchase error.

[geneb]

Yow. I didn't realize Alibre sucked that bad. I'm glad I didn't buy it.

My go-to tool of choice has always been Inventor, although I've been experimenting with SolidWorks lately.

g.

[Bill Havins]

Here's an update on the challenges using Alibre (now known as Geomagic). I chose to upgrade my OS to Windows 7. My laptop runs Windows 7 and Alibre 2012 has run fine on it (most of the time). After upgrading to Windows 7 and re-installing Alibre 2012, the software does not recognize the license file still on the machine (it thinks it is a new machine - makes sense). Alibre customer support has not been helpful. We will see how this plays out over the next 48 hours. But after the way 3DSystems treated BFB owners I don't have a lot of hope. I'll report back when the issue is "resolved" (either fixed or they tell me to pay them more money, at which point I'll say "No, thank you").

Bill

[geneb]

If it was me (and I had a valid license like you do), I'd get a crack for the software in order to use it as I need to. (I'm one of those rebels that take the path that as long as I'm not violating the copyright, the EULA writers can kiss my ass.)

g.

[Bill Havins]

Thanks, Gene. I have to tell you I absolutely hate dealing with Alibre (now 3DSystems - and it's worse). If they fail to live up to their end of the contract (i.e., functional software) then the contract is "null and void" as far as I'm concerned. At that point I'd appreciate a PM with a link if you have one "lying about."

[Bill Havins]

Alibre came through with a license key. "Good on them." And I will admit things are working much better under Windows 7. Now, let's see what happens when I build a multi-part Assembly later this afternoon. Fingers crossed!

[johnyac]

Glad to read they came through for you.

Alibre/Geo, just did another name change, now Cubify Design 2014. Was starting to worry after reading the negative posts on their forum about Geomajic. Then, a new version arrived. Here i was sitting, wondering, worried if i pooched myself not getting the subscription service. Would i be allowed to load the new 2014 version? Decided to try, at it did load and does run. Very pleased with the software to date. Cant say I have done allot, but still learning. Working on learning assemblies. I have yet to have a single issue or crash.

Please keep us posted of any issues you run into.

[Bill Havins]

Johnyac, thanks for the information. I'm still having the same difficulties even after upgrading to Windows 7. I have posted on the Alibre user forum and it seems that a number of other users have the same problem. There does not appear to be a solution. What a shame.

The difficulty I am having only occurs when creating assemblies. That is waht other users report.

Yesterday I was building a simple part in Alibre. I wanted to test some KISSlicer settings. When I used the "revolve cut" feature (built on a construction plane I had added) the silly software left me with a "non-manifold" object. After about an hour of working on the problem I trashed the design and re-thought how I might create the design using just the default construction planes. It worked without a hitch.

I am beginning to believe that my problem with Alibre is related to designs where I have added construction planes (you absolutely have to add planes in Alibre to do anything sophisticated). I am going to carefully monitor if such is the case.

We'll see.

[JohnStack]

Sorry you had to go through that.

I think the CAD world is going to be forced to go through a massive change - as others have - the consuming public won't stand for it otherwise. These companies have had a price lock on their markets for quite a while.....

I have Macs - which is altogether another problem. I just shelled out $500 for Trimble Sketchup - not really CAD; however, I simply couldn't grok so many different keystroke combos and tools to get simple jobs done. My use case was a 3D shark fin.

I liked Inventor Fusion - but it was really buggy and I couldn't really get some of the more complex steps very well.

Hoping it _all_ changes. Can't come soon enough for me.

[johnyac]

John Stack,
You made me smile. Are you the Man From Mars?

[Struve]

I started with Alibre and loved it since it had nice tutorials and examples to follow. Even imported a gear making formula from Germany. It was kind of scary when the name changed to Geomagic and then to Cubify and then to Geomagic Design, but the versions all support the stuff I'm making. It's stl files work fine on my UP! printer and I thinking of getting a Delta from SeeMeCNC. What I want to do is print my metal clay (Metal Adventures Inc. is my company) by extruding it from a syringe. The UP! has too much vibration of the platform and I'd like to modify a Delta to control a syringe.