Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

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Nylocke
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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by Nylocke »

The prime tower in KISS is a small one wall cylinder with no infill. The best prime tower I've seen/used was the Cura prime tower that was 100% infill with no perimeters. Unfortunately Cura had quality issues that aren't present in KISS, and KISS has more options related to retracts that make it better.

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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by 3D-Print »

The priming tower is aways the first thing to print with a tool/color change. However, as Nylocke mentioned it is only one wall thick which is not quite enough to clear the diamond head of the prior filament/color.

I can not find the option for changing or increasing the wall thickness...... if this existed it would fix the problem.
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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by 3D-Print »

You can see that there is a bit of residual filament (ABS) that mixes. It is closer but I'm not happy yet with the print. I really need the prime tower to be 2-3 layers thick vs a single layer to clear the diamond print head of the prior color!

The other problem I have with KISSlicer is that I have not figured out how to move and strategically place the towers. I can't reposition them at all on the bed. I have better results when I pick the right color for the right tower but still is not there yet.

This "boat" print is not very forgiving (pending how you pick the colors for the different STL mesh pieces). It has been clearly much harder to accurately print than the "Dragon and Heart." I have now easily printed 6-7 of the Dragon's for kids and friends.

As you can see at the top of the hull I am still over extruding. I have been using filament that I have on the shelf. For this series of prints (everything in this thread) I have used ABS - HatchBox blue and green and SeeMeCNC Red. HotEnd at 210. I have ordered some transparent PLA from RepRap. Maybe this is part of the problem....... We will see.
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Last edited by 3D-Print on Wed May 25, 2016 10:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by 3D-Print »

So after staring at the boat print with a beer in hand (maybe that was the trick..... the beer), I realized that I'm not really over extruding.

If you look at the green arrow you can see that at this specific part, extrusion of the door trim is really quite good without any over extrusion. However, if you look directly above this green (red arrow), it is clearly mixing with red and looks like it is over extruding. This tells me that I need more retraction when I change out the tool since the red ABS in this case is oozing in addition to green being actively extruded. If I can avoid this ooze when I change to the new tool (green ABS) I expect this will improve. Even more notable is the marked "overextrusion" or "over oozing" as evidence by the white arrow. The yellow arrow is not bad, but not as good as the green arrow.

I suspect that the variable amount of "over-oozing" as identified by the different arrows is a reflection of the timing post-tool/color change. For example, I suspect that the white arrow is at a position immediately after a tool change, followed by the the red, yellow and then green where the red had stopped oozing. Now at this point of the beer I'm just guessing!!!

The good part of the KISSlicer is that I and sent a g-code with each exiting extruder/tool. Thus, I should be able to retract a few more mm with a tool change and not mess up movement retraction...... Maybe prevent this oozing problem and some of the stringing you can see.

Ok.... try again with one change in print parameters..... Next trial/test print!!!!!!

Multiple edits: Sorry can't type and/or edit.... maybe that was the beer!!!! :D
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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by 3D-Print »

I checked the g.code of the print (copied below) and you can see that here is no retraction when there is a tool/color change (Noted by the T1 command. Tonight I will reprint and suspect this will resolve most of the problems. Once retraction with a tool changes is working, the priming tower with one wall may be enough!!!!

You can see the retractions which KISSlicer calls "Destring Suck" and is the "G1 E-8.5 F900" command after a move (the extruder retracts 8.5 mm as defined by "E-8.5"). However, there is no retraction with the tool change. Thus, the old color will continue to ooze after being retired while the new tool/color is being primed (which also did not have a retract when it was retired)..... thus a ton of filament with each tool change.

...................
G1 X10.86 Y2.86 E0.0029
;
; 'Destring/Wipe/Jump Path', 0.0 [feed mm/s], 23.0 [head mm/s]
; 'Destring Suck'
G1 E-8.5 F900
G1 X10.92 Y2.92 E0 F1380
G1 X10.92 Y3.49 E0
G1 X10.35 Y2.92 E0
G1 X9.79 Y2.92 E0
G1 X10.92 Y4.06 E0
G1 X10.92 Y4.44 E0
G1 X10.92 Y4.44 Z0.7 E0 F12000
;
; *** Cooling Extruder 3 to 210 C and Retiring ***
; Guaranteed same extruder, cooling down
; 5D-style
;
;
; *** Selecting and Warming Extruder 2 to 210 C ***
; Select extruder, warm, purge
5D-style
T1
M104 S210
;
;
;
; 'Prime Pillar Path', 1.9 [feed mm/s], 38.0 [head mm/s]
G1 X47.11 Y25.77 Z0.7 E0 F12000
G1 X47.11 Y25.77 Z0.4 E0
; 'Destring Prime'
G1 E8.5 F2700
G1 X46.28 Y26.14 E0.0453 F2280
G1 X45.22 Y26.13 E0.0524
......................................
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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by 3D-Print »

After looking at this g.code again I do think that the noted retraction is appropriate. This because the next movements do not extrude.

I will still insert an additional retraction with a tool change and see what happens.
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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by 3D-Print »

I added a 6mm retraction with each tool change which is better. However, not sure why yet (need to look at the g-code) but my green retracted back and unloaded.... thus the smoke stack did not print!!!??
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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by dc42 »

A couple of suggestions:

1 You can do retractions and reprimes in the tool change files if you want, as long as you allow for getting a reprime at the start of the print.

2. To prevent oozing, make sure that the nozzle standby temperature is low enough. For PLA printing I use 150C standby temperature. In your tool change files, in the M116 command to wait for temperature, use a parameter to specify that you only want to wait for the new nozzle to heat up, not for the old one to cool down as well. But maybe you are doing all of this already.

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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by CRPerryJr »

I'm testing my new Diamond/Duet setup as well. Here are my results so far:
Everything is configured/sliced in Mattercontrol using Matterslice.

Image
The Green Frog was my very first Multicolor print on the new setup, and came out surprisingly well given I really didn't change much from the default configuration in Mattercontrol. I printed directly via USB and used the "shield" wipe in PLA. This freaked me out at first. I didn't watch it print, and when I came to look later, it looked like a weird blob of plastic on my printer. Come to find out, the frog was under the shield! Kinda cool, but very stringy! There is no tool change custom commands, nor any retraction on tool change.

Image
The Orange Frog was printed in ABS, and I modified some setting in Mattercontrol. I changed to a wipe tower of 5mm, and added a tool change retract of 5mm. (10 mm was to much and caused aggravating jams.) This reduced much of the stringiness, but I had trouble with the wipe tower falling over. I also configured and sliced this print in Mattercontrol, but exported the gcode to the Duet via the web interface and printed from there.

Image
This was my first 3 color print. I could not get the wipe tower from Mattercontrol to print properly on this print. The tower was never smooth on top, and the printhead would catch causing the tower to topple over. So I just turned it off and let it go with no wipe tower. Mechanically, it wasn't to bad, although my infill was way to low for this print (10%). But the colors came out horribly. There wasn't much stringing either. I'm going to try again and see if the shield wipe will work better. I printed this one via the web interface just like the Orange Frog.
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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by CRPerryJr »

Here is Marvin again. This time in his wipe shield. The colors were better this time, but still not where they need to be. I may need to increase the layers from 2 to 3 to help with the color bleed through...
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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by 3D-Print »

Awesome. the shield wipe is interesting...... I have never been able to get MC and MS to work since they do not allow selection of relative vs. absolute extrusion. How have you set this in MC/MS? I have found that a retraction of 8mm when at 205 degrees using ABS keep the ooze to almost nothing and no jams. Still a bit of stringing which depends how often/quick the tool change occurs.

If you post-the STL files you printed, I will print these in KissSlicer using my settings and see how they work. Have yet to try the frog or Marvin.
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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by 3D-Print »

The summer has been crazy....... Thus i have been off the grid for the past while.

I need too get back to some mixing of colors with the transparent PLA I ordered from RepRap. Maybe with Marvin!
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Re: Duet and Multi-Color/Multi-Filament Extrusion

Post by CRPerryJr »

Here's my latest effort. (Please don't mind the colors...It's what I have a bunch of, so I'm using it up...) So far the wipe shield is working best for me in Mattercontrol using Matterslice. This vase is in ABS and took about 20 hours to print along with it's wipe shield.

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