S3D version 3.0 is out

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby mhackney » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:28 am

I agree JFettig, I understand my CNC machines and software inside and out. In fact, I teach and write about "design for manufacturing". I apply the exact same principles to my 3D printing - design for manufacturing. That's exactly how I evolved my printed fly reel and other things I make. Until I got S3D 3.0 I did exactly that, I understand the capabilities of my printer and the other slicers I use and everything was just fine. Then I run into a bug in S3D that does not allow me to use my existing designs to get the results I require. So, do I redesign for a known bug or continue using the software/slicers that present no problems, especially since I am not completely certain that S3D will offer any real or new advantage. It has potential based on its feature set but until I thoroughly vet the software, I won't know and that is why I purchased 3.0 to test it out and start to leverage it. Running into an issue that imposes constraints on my aesthetic (and perhaps even mechanical) designs from the very first attempt was not encouraging.

And, as I stated, the proximity of the stars is a very simple example. I have many other designs, like one with a leaf shaped cutout, that exhibits this issue around the perimeter of the leaf or a special reel with hearts that I give to Casting for Recovery events for fundraisers (CfR is an organization that uses fly fishing as therapy for women with or recovering from breast cancer). And there are others. I would not have been able to "design for manufacturing" with many of these shapes except to avoid them completely. I have tried smoothing the outlines, enlarging, respecting, etc to allow S3D to generate nice perimeters with no success. So for now, I'll wait and see when a version comes out that fixes this problem. It is just frustrating that when no other available slicer has this issue that S3D does. I am not a "follow the herd" type and can appreciate they are trying to make some progress with slicing software but on the flip side you have to do the basics well to be in the game.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby 0110-m-p » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:54 pm

I still find that S3D works GREAT for some things, but other more complex shapes it does infill/perimeters strangely and I go back to KISSlicer for these files.

It is my dream to have KISSlicer with S3D's GUI and extra features.
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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby Micael » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:17 am

Can you show a screenshot of the preview with an object where the infill is strange?

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby ZakRabbit » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:54 pm

Micael wrote:Can you show a screenshot of the preview with an object where the infill is strange?

mhackney posted a couple earlier in the thread.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby Micael » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:49 pm

ZakRabbit wrote:
Micael wrote:Can you show a screenshot of the preview with an object where the infill is strange?

mhackney posted a couple earlier in the thread.


I could be mistaken but I believe all the screenshots posted presented issues with the perimeters, not with the infill.
I personally haven't found issues with the infill on s3d, at least not on 3.0, previous versions had a major issue for parts that required strength, which required the extrusion width to be set at 200% (and didn't really fix the issue completely), and while the software defaults of version 3.0 still has that issue, it has a setting to fix it now called "Print every infill angle on each layer" that completely fixes it, so in a way now that issue has become more of a feature. However if there is an issue with the infill I would really like to know, since I use S3D almost exclusively.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby mhackney » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:23 pm

Yes, my screen shots were perimeter issues. I've bot seen infill issues with 3.0.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby Jimustanguitar » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:33 am

So what infill/outline overlap is working for folks? I'm at 25% and it's still not connecting all the way. Is it the 150% infill width that's screwing this up? I'm going to try setting it back to 100% as a test.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby JFettig » Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:26 am

I use 40% overlap and 100% infill width for ABS.

20% overlap for PETG

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby mhackney » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:00 am

Outline Overlap 15% with a .4mm nozzle (Kraken or S3D V6) for PLA. My infill length is 100%.

I approached setting up S3D v3 from basic principles and ignored the folklore around large infill width, etc with the previous versions. I'm getting some nice parts for everything except the perimeter issue I discovered. S3D did reply to an email and acknowledged that they are aware of the issue. No commitment for a fix but acknowledging there is a problem is the first step of any treatment program.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby 0110-m-p » Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:00 am

I'm not sure why, but I have always had to run extreme overlap setting to get my infill to truly connect with my wall (in KISSlicer as well I would run upwards of 0.7-0.8). For S3D I run 30-40% overlap with 100% extrusion width. Only time I go above 100% is on larger parts that I want to print faster.
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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby mhackney » Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:02 am

That could be a mechanical problem or you are printing very fast and there is a little slop. Try some test prints going slow (25mm/s) and tune your overlap that way. If you are not getting connection at that speed in KISS, you likely have some slop.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby bubbasnow » Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:04 pm

0110-m-p wrote:I'm not sure why, but I have always had to run extreme overlap setting to get my infill to truly connect with my wall (in KISSlicer as well I would run upwards of 0.7-0.8). For S3D I run 30-40% overlap with 100% extrusion width. Only time I go above 100% is on larger parts that I want to print faster.



ive had this issue with underextrusion as well.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby JFettig » Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:18 pm

I've had issues when I had mechanical issues, fixed by tightening things. I've also had issues with ABS shrink causing the inside boundaries to pull away from where they should be and infill wouldn't reach it.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby mhackney » Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:21 pm

I've only printed PLA from S3D gcode. But, I have put in a lot of printing with v3.0 now and have been quite happy with the quality of the code. V3 is heads and shoulders above the previous versions. It behaves very similarly to KISS in many respects. Bubbasnow, are you using v3?

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby bubbasnow » Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:02 pm

mhackney wrote:I've only printed PLA from S3D gcode. But, I have put in a lot of printing with v3.0 now and have been quite happy with the quality of the code. V3 is heads and shoulders above the previous versions. It behaves very similarly to KISS in many respects. Bubbasnow, are you using v3?


yes v3, i had the issue once while printing with a new spool of t-glase. bumped up the extrusion multiplier to compensate.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby 0110-m-p » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:30 am

mhackney wrote:That could be a mechanical problem or you are printing very fast and there is a little slop. Try some test prints going slow (25mm/s) and tune your overlap that way. If you are not getting connection at that speed in KISS, you likely have some slop.


It's been a while since I checked belt tension, but I can't think of anywhere I would have slop. My prints end up the same if I print at 20mm/s or 40mm/s. I'll check my belt tension tonight.

The other problem I am still having with S3D is getting connected 100% infill. When my extrusion width setting "perfectly" matches my actual single wall width on a hollow calibration cube in S3D, the 100% infill on the bottom layers (I do 2 or 3 layers usually to test this) have noticeable gaps between extrusions. If I do a back to back test with KISS, the lines are touching or extremely close to touching. This is with as identical slicer configurations as possible (temp, speed, extrusion width, layer height, skin thickness, etc).

Because of this I always over-extrude a little bit on S3D. If I set my extrusion width to 0.48mm, I will tune it to extrude 0.50mm to compensate. Parts end up strong as hell, but my dimensional accuracy of holes suffers a bit.
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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby mhackney » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:34 am

The primary culprit was the arm joints with the carriages and platform. What generation of Rostock do you have. It was a very subtle movement.

What hot end and extruder are you using? Is the extruder calibrated? But, if you are mimicking KISS settings I would expect very similar results based on my recent experience.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby 0110-m-p » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:00 am

Rostock Max V1 (purchased Oct. 2013), trick laser arms from day 1, E3D V5 hotend w/ trick laser j-head mount, trick laser carriages.

Extruder is calibrated, bowden tube replace earlier this year, machine has a little over 1000 hours on it.
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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby JFettig » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:19 am

Check your cheapskate bearings. That is where I always have issues.

Post up your factory file for me to have a look. Delete the models from it if you have to but leave your process in.


I never adjust the extrusion multiplier from 100%, I always carefully measure my filament, put that in and with a properly calibrated extruder(hot and cold ends) its always spot on for me.

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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby 0110-m-p » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:42 pm

I don't have cheapskate bearings since I'm using the Trick Laser carriages.

It does bring up a good question though...how long should we expect the ball joints in carbon arms to last before developing slop?
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Re: S3D version 3.0 is out

Postby JFettig » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:31 pm

I have lots of hours on mine, as long as you have elastic bands or something binding each pair, it shouldn't be an issue. every once in a while my rubber bands break and it gets just a bit sloppy.


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