Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

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ExplodedZombie
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Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by ExplodedZombie » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:38 am

Hello again for the millionth time!

I'm trying to debug this nozzle issue and hoping someone can help. I try to heat up the nozzle on my E3D v6 (newer cartridge style) and the temperature doesn't rise fast at all. So slow (< 1c) that it decouples heater. Now, I do have a reading of 20.6 at idle and it shows about 21.3 before cutting out. So...given that there is a reading, is it likely that it's the heater cartridge and not the thermistor? I have a digital multimeter but I'm not sure exactly what setting to use for either.

Thanks in advance!

PS - I apologize if this subject has been beaten to death but a quick search didn't turn up much. Too many old posts with similar words.

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by geneb » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:37 am

Check the voltage at the RAMBo while you're trying to heat the hot end. It should be 12v. Some of the older ATX power supplies give up the ghost.

Also check to make sure that the wires are not lose in the compression terminal on the RAMBo end.

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by ExplodedZombie » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:57 pm

Edit: I held a thermometer to the hotend and it was rising pretty damn fast! It must be the thermistor?

---

I tried testing the heater wire with the multimeter and got a reading of like .32 when setting it to '20' in the V with line and dotted line settings...I think that means DC voltage. I am bad at this stuff.

The heated bed works just fine, by the way. the difference? Recently I burned my hotend to death and replaced it with all new E3D V6 parts that are upgraded versions. Clean tip stuff and plated heater block. Also a new heater cartridge and thermistor. So, here is one problem: I soldered quick-disconnect parts into the wires so I wouldn't have to rewire anything when I buy new stuff. I just solder on the new item (thermistor, heater cartridge) to one end of a connector and boom, it works. Maybe I did a bad crimp job on the thermistor (with this tiny connector thing I put inline)

Really i just want to get this thing printing again because now that I have a 9mo daughter (in addition to the 4yo son) I have no time whatsoever to tinker and need to sell this thing :(. I really wanted to make it work :((

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by geneb » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:26 am

Did you update the thermistor type in the firmware after you changed the hot end? The E3D thermistor is different than the one in the stock v2 hot end.

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by ExplodedZombie » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:21 am

#define EXT0_TEMPSENSOR_TYPE 8 //97

8 should be the E3d type, according to their troubleshooting guide.

I examined the thermistor to see if I broke it when tightening the nut. Interestingly, the temperature reading began to climb really fast while touching my skin... starting to think that I misread the thermometer when checking the heater cartridge

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by ExplodedZombie » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:49 am

Ok sorry to keep beating a dead horse but here is the update:
Thermistor definitely working. Holding it spikes the temp reading.
Hot end is not heating up still, even after replacing it with a new one. I even replaced the wiring. It's not that it won't heat up, it's that it only makes it about 1.2 degrees by the time it decouples. When I try to PID tune, it gives some silly messages:
PID Autotune Start
PID Autotune failed! timeout
skip 33 (x 9)
Error: Wrong checksum
Resend: 34

That's it. It did go for like 10 minutes and the temp rose to about 22c but that's as far as it got.

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by geneb » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:21 am

A thought just occurred to me - you changed the hot end, thus how the hot end is heated (resistors vs a heater cartridge). Did you re-run the PID tuning process? If you didn't, that might explain why the hot end isn't heating fast enough. Give that a shot and let us know how it goes.

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by ExplodedZombie » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:41 pm

I ran 'M303 E0 S190 C8' - that's what gave me the error
I replaced everything with pretty much the exact same stuff so didn't think I'd need to do anything other than that. I previously had E3D v6 also, but I upgraded the heater block to a coated one, or clean tip or something, as well as the heat break. Other than that, same thermistor, same heater cartridge until I replaced it with the new one (molex?) in hopes that it was my crap soldering job that caused the issue on the previous xt60 connectors I used near the hot end

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by geneb » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:53 am

This is a weird one, that's for sure. :)

Can you post the full output of your PID tuning run? You might also try "M303 S190" without the other parameters.
You can paste the results into a text file and then just attach the file to your reply.

Thanks!

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by ExplodedZombie » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:36 pm

It failed again. Here is the output, sorry for the delay.
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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by geneb » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:34 am

That's just bonkers. What's your current PID values set to?

tnx.
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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by ExplodedZombie » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:33 am

PID Drive Max: 180
Drive Min: 80
14.5 / 0.73 / 53.4

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by geneb » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:16 am

Try bumping your Drive Min to 205.

Just to be clear, when you try heating the hot end normally, it DOES get very hot, correct? Is the temperature change not reflected in the display?

If it does NOT get hot, I'm almost wondering if they accidentally sent you a 24v heater cart instead of the 12v one...

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by ExplodedZombie » Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:14 pm

Tried the 205. Got to about 35c and it died. The thermistor seems to be able to read my body heat when I touch it, and the reading does go up. I bought this one https://www.matterhackers.com/store/l/e ... k/M04JNTNA
This is the 2nd cartridge to not work so I don't know, maybe it's the RAMBO? (previous was standard cartridge)

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by geneb » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:22 am

That's just weird.

Check the terminals on the RAMBo for the hot end and make sure they're tight and undamaged. Start a heating cycle and measure the voltage on the terminals. You should see 11.9-12v.

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by ExplodedZombie » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:35 pm

So I turned the knob on my voltage measuring thing whatever it's called, to 20 in the V section. It measured .16. I didn't get a reading on 800 or any of the other settings. I'm sure you can see why this is hard for me. I really don't know what's going on.

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by geneb » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:46 am

I would strongly suggest watching some YouTube videos on how to use a multimeter. A ".16" reading indicates that you've got the meter set up incorrectly. If you can post a photo of the meter showing the dial, I can probably point you to the right setting.

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by ExplodedZombie » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:25 pm

Here is the setting I had my multimeter on. I touched the red inside the + and black inside the - that the hotend is usually plugged into.
0.jpg

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by geneb » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:29 am

It appears that you've got the meter set up correctly - my apologies. Can you check the power input connector on the RAMBo to see what the meter shows? If it's around 12v, do you see LEDs lit on the board? If so, it could be a blown MOSFET on the RAMBo. If the F3 fuse (https://reprap.org/wiki/Rambo_v1.3#Fuses) was blown, the whole board would be dead.

Ultimachine does repairs on the RAMBo boards, so if your MOSFET is dead, you can contact them for repairs.

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by ExplodedZombie » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:13 am

So the power measured 12-12.5. The hot end measured .14-.16. I am guessing it's the mosfet like you mentioned. And yeah there are LEDs all over, including the one that is basically telling you the hotend is on. I'll take a look at the fuses next time I'm out there, but I think the fans work fine.

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Re: Noz: def, heater decoupled (RMV2)

Post by geneb » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:49 am

Ok, if you've got the hot end heating and you're getting the .14-.16 at the terminal block, you've got a blown MOSFET. :(

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