Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

This forum is for discussions specific to the Duet-equipped Rostock MAX v3.2 3D printer.
fulcrum
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:35 pm

geneb wrote:The barrier to getting an affordable printer with a heated chamber is patents. Until the patents that Stratasys (and probably 3D Systems) expire, there's no legal way for companies like SeeMeCNC to offer a heated chamber - Stratasys certainly isn't going to license the patents to a competitor. Even if they did, those license fees would likely put the printer into the $50k+ range.


If this were the case, how is the Ultimaker (or other enclosed printers) not selling for $50K or infringing on patents? I am sure that the enclosure plus the heatbed inside it constitute a heated chamber. Or does it require an active heating system?

To go back to my original question, can anyone confirm that the v3.2 bed can reliably go to 100C and maintain that temp? It's being advertised that way so I just want to know what the real capabilities are. If I had to build an enclosure, it should be simple enough.

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by Xenocrates » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:35 am

fulcrum wrote:
geneb wrote:The barrier to getting an affordable printer with a heated chamber is patents. Until the patents that Stratasys (and probably 3D Systems) expire, there's no legal way for companies like SeeMeCNC to offer a heated chamber - Stratasys certainly isn't going to license the patents to a competitor. Even if they did, those license fees would likely put the printer into the $50k+ range.


If this were the case, how is the Ultimaker (or other enclosed printers) not selling for $50K or infringing on patents? I am sure that the enclosure plus the heatbed inside it constitute a heated chamber. Or does it require an active heating system?

To go back to my original question, can anyone confirm that the v3.2 bed can reliably go to 100C and maintain that temp? It's being advertised that way so I just want to know what the real capabilities are. If I had to build an enclosure, it should be simple enough.


Ultimakers are not fully enclosed (Top is open, letting the heat out), and the bed is heated, there is no attempt to actually control the temperature of the chamber. It could also be said that since the motion system is entirely within the enclosure (because it's the outer structural shell, not a thermal barrier other than incidentally), that it doesn't infringe on the patent, if one is specific about it, as the patent only covers external motion systems. However, compared to Stratsys, almost all manufacturers are tiny enough to crush with a groundless lawsuit.

You could argue that for example, a modified Artemis, or my hacked together V2.2, might infringe, as portions of the motion system are actually outside what the build chamber would be. Thus most Domestic/First world (IE, Prusa, Ultimaker, Seeme,E3D) companies won't sell enclosed printers, because patent courts in the US have allowed generalizing from a specific patent (which is bad for all of us). Chinese manufacturers don't care so much, because US patents don't apply to them, and they lie on customs declarations anyways.

As for temperatures the bed is capable of, I've not used a V3 specific bed, however, the V2 could hit 120 C (slowly) on 12V (with a upgraded ATX supply. 1 rail supply in the V3 is slightly adjustable to increase voltage, and more stable), and the Rev 10 bed on the 3.2's is the same total area and power (based on the voltage and resistance, Rev8 was slightly lower power, but seems to be only straight V3's). I won't guarantee your specific one will hit 120, but it will hit 100C, unless you keep it in an unheated room/building (like I do), and that with fan curves appropriate to ABS, that you can maintain it.
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by DeltaCon » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:21 am

Xenocrates wrote:As for temperatures the bed is capable of, I've not used a V3 specific bed, however, the V2 could hit 120 C (slowly) on 12V (with a upgraded ATX supply. 1 rail supply in the V3 is slightly adjustable to increase voltage, and more stable), and the Rev 10 bed on the 3.2's is the same total area and power (based on the voltage and resistance, Rev8 was slightly lower power, but seems to be only straight V3's). I won't guarantee your specific one will hit 120, but it will hit 100C, unless you keep it in an unheated room/building (like I do), and that with fan curves appropriate to ABS, that you can maintain it.


I have a rev7 Onyx, intended for 12V use, and I am quite sure it does not reach 120 C in any reasonable time. But many (like me) have upgraded to a 24V PSU and turned it down to 19 or 20V (lowest setting). The Rev7 can handle that pretty nicely, to temps of 100C anyways. I never felt the need to go any highr, but I reach 90C in about two minutes or so. So I am pretty confident I can go much higher than 120C in reasonable time, but I don't know if that is going to shorten lifespan a lot.

Even if you can maintain 120 C, I don't think it is going to help a lot against ABS shrinkage above a few cm off of the bed. That depends a lot onb how big the part is (especially how wide, the wider, the more shrinkage the part has to resist).
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by geneb » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:40 am

The power supply in the 3.2 can be tweaked to 15v.

g.
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:34 pm

geneb wrote:The power supply in the 3.2 can be tweaked to 15v.

g.


I was thinking along the same lines of upgrading the power supply to 24v. The duet can handle it nicely and it seems better to turn down a power supply than turn one up.

As I mentioned, I had some research into the Prusa mk3 and they use a very underpowered psu which burns out on 110v machines. I dont want to provoke such issues.

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