Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by travelphotog » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:26 pm

geneb wrote:Makes me wonder what I could crank out on my ShopBot PRT 96 Alpha. :) I've run aluminum on it in the past, but only "2D" work (control panels) I've only ever used 2 flute cutters on it (.125") when doing that. The last aluminum part I ran was the metal back for the EW panel in the F-15. I ran the tool at 6600 RPM (really too slow for my spindle - it's RPM range is 9000-18000 [2.2HP HSD]) and cut the material at .5in/sec. That's probably completely wrong for milling aluminum, but I'll take anything that won't result in another broken cutter. Those little bastards are expensive, even when getting 'em from Centurion Tool.

What are you using for creating your toolpaths with? I started out with V-Carve pro and eventually upgraded to Aspire.

g.



I use HSMxpress but have access to SolidCAM through SolidWorks. I am looking to switch to Fusion360 though with the full HSMworks CAM package. I like being able to work on CAm while in my CAD package so the switch to Fusion360 will let me keep that at a FAR cheaper price point in the long run. I just HATE the new GUI in Fusion360.. It will not be an easy change over I think and I admit I keep putting it off as long as I can. At roughly $12 each the Viper 3 flute aluminum mill end mills are not to bad price wise and they mill like a dream. The finish is really nice even in dry milling (Which is what they are designed for, dry milling). You should have little issue doing 2.5D or even full 3D milling on that CNC with a nice spindle like that. As long as you keep the chips clear and allow the mill to do the job instead of forcing it, it should turn out some really nice work. I mean if the OKO and the X Carve can do it.. Yours should be a walk in the park. I use Aspire for V carving when I do engraving work in stone and such. HMS does not do such a great job at that so far from what I have experienced. But it is a great CAM package for 2.5D milling like the mounts. Bit of a learning curve like all good CAM seems to have. But the level of control is really amazing. Looking forward to having the ball screw mill back up and running around the first of the year. Looking to maybe change out the X carve for a little larger full ball screw mill early next year also. Just not happy with how the XC does and the amount of issues it has. My OKO really does better in some ways. But of course both pale in comparison to a ball screw mill of the same design. My real goal this year is the new Tormach PCNC 440. Wife is all about it also so it should happen at some point. At some point I need a lathe also.. But that is further down the road than the Tormach I feel right now.
http://713maker.com/ Custom aluminum and carbon fiber hot end mounts for the Rostock Max and Orion.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by forrie » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:58 pm

I'd save up a little longer and get a Tormach PCNC 1100. That new mini mill just looks like an expensive toy.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by JFettig » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:13 pm

This conversation is moving toward my recent experience.

Over the past 2 years I've been looking for a CNC mill, I considered doing another retrofit, something like a Tormach but having run retrofits and stepper driven machines(and using mach3) I have never been a huge fan. I don't like to have to closely monitor my machine 100% of the time with fear that it might randomly do something weird, and I've had my mini mill do some weird stuff.

I started looking for used machining centers, I passed up a 1995 Milltronics VMC for $5000. In good running condition - it was a little odd that it didn't have a tool changer but it did have a 10,000rpm spindle. I have seen multiple and passed on multiple machines under $7000. All vertical machining centers, coolant pumps, most with tool changers, spindles over 5k etc. Things changed and I ended up spending a lot more on a VF-4SS. I definitely recommend you look to other options such as used machines. The biggest downside to buying a big machining center is having to move it. Hiring riggers is expensive and if its over 2 tons or you don't have access to proper equipment, you might have to. The other downside to buying a used machine is things fail over time(same can happen with a new machine). When things fail, its more expensive than a mach3 powered machine running gecko drives. But if you plan on doing real work, get a real machine.

Regarding end mills - with my retrofitted mini mill - I found that it didn't like high helix end mills much. I ended up running regular 30 degree helix 3FL end mills.

If you want some cheaper high helix 3fl end mills, look into YG1 Alu-Power. They are one of the cheapest brands out there and they actually give me some of the best finishes. Admittedly they don't plow through as much as some of the other brands but they do pretty good for me. Running SolidCAM iMachining I push them over 400IPM and 11,000rpm with .1" step over and full depth, and this is on "level 3" as they call it, I can probably turn it up more as I'm only at 25-30% of spindle power.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by Nath5 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:13 pm

Will these fit a e3d v6 lite?

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by derzaubererer » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:25 pm

Nath5 wrote:Will these fit a e3d v6 lite?

the e3d is exactly the same but with a heatbreak made out of metal and a different thermistor

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by travelphotog » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:27 pm

Nath5 wrote:Will these fit a e3d v6 lite?


Yes, we have had a few orders for them already.
http://713maker.com/ Custom aluminum and carbon fiber hot end mounts for the Rostock Max and Orion.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by forrie » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:32 am

JFettig wrote:This conversation is moving toward my recent experience.


I'm struggling with the same thing. Living in Australia decent/reasonably priced second hand machines are almost non existent. I've been thinking about converting a Chinese Sieg X3 with a cncfusion kit, but when you are all done you are so close to a Tormach price wise I may as well pay the little extra and get the better machine and upgrade over time.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by jram » Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:46 pm

Is the lock ring meant to bend a bit when you tighten it?
Machines- Rostock Max v2 with E3D v6, Corsair 750 power supply, PEI bed,injection molded carriages and new arms. Aluminum mount. X carve with x controller. Stratasys Uprint SE

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by drunkenmugsy » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:26 pm

travelphotog wrote:
Nath5 wrote:Will these fit a e3d v6 lite?


Yes, we have had a few orders for them already.


Can confirm fits my V6 lite just fine!

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by crocky » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:41 am

Package just arrived at Melbourne, probably be in my hands by Tuesday or Wednesday.... Nearly here now... Got a couple of things to go along with while I wait!
Bob
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by travelphotog » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:25 am

JFettig wrote:This conversation is moving toward my recent experience.

Over the past 2 years I've been looking for a CNC mill, I considered doing another retrofit, something like a Tormach but having run retrofits and stepper driven machines(and using mach3) I have never been a huge fan. I don't like to have to closely monitor my machine 100% of the time with fear that it might randomly do something weird, and I've had my mini mill do some weird stuff.

I started looking for used machining centers, I passed up a 1995 Milltronics VMC for $5000. In good running condition - it was a little odd that it didn't have a tool changer but it did have a 10,000rpm spindle. I have seen multiple and passed on multiple machines under $7000. All vertical machining centers, coolant pumps, most with tool changers, spindles over 5k etc. Things changed and I ended up spending a lot more on a VF-4SS. I definitely recommend you look to other options such as used machines. The biggest downside to buying a big machining center is having to move it. Hiring riggers is expensive and if its over 2 tons or you don't have access to proper equipment, you might have to. The other downside to buying a used machine is things fail over time(same can happen with a new machine). When things fail, its more expensive than a mach3 powered machine running gecko drives. But if you plan on doing real work, get a real machine.

Regarding end mills - with my retrofitted mini mill - I found that it didn't like high helix end mills much. I ended up running regular 30 degree helix 3FL end mills.

If you want some cheaper high helix 3fl end mills, look into YG1 Alu-Power. They are one of the cheapest brands out there and they actually give me some of the best finishes. Admittedly they don't plow through as much as some of the other brands but they do pretty good for me. Running SolidCAM iMachining I push them over 400IPM and 11,000rpm with .1" step over and full depth, and this is on "level 3" as they call it, I can probably turn it up more as I'm only at 25-30% of spindle power.



As much as I would love to justify and afford something like a VF-4SS, 84K is just not in the cards for the amount of work I do right now on the mills. I do understand where you are coming from though. If I were trying to be a full time full sevice shop for large clients then I could see the need for such a large and expensive mill. It is much like my profession. When someone comes to me and tell me they want to shoot professional sports full time, I tell them they need about $30K or so in cameras and bodies to even start to think about it. When it is how you make your living, you need the best gear for the job and often in any profession, that is not cheap.

I think my best bet will either be a new PCNC 440 or maybe a used PCNC 700 from Tormach. From what I have seen with the 440 in steel and aluminum, I am pretty impressed and the few guys I know who do it for a living and have had hands on with it, like it for the type of mill it is. Your advice for a used and "better" mill is good advice and often the same type I give to guys needing pro level shooting gear on a budget, buy good used gear and save for new gear later, but get in the game sooner than later or you will never be on the sidelines shooting at all.

I do refuse to go into debt for this hobby at this point so I guess that is another reason I am looking at "affordable" mills. I had looked at converting a mill like someone mentioned and like them, I saw the end pries was so close to a used Tormach or a new 440 that it is just a safer bet for me to go that path I think and stay away from a converted mill. I do need to get a column mill and get away from the gantry routers I use now for my metal work. They have their uses and for my carbon fiber quad copter parts and such they are great. But I need to step up to the next level and invest in a good vertical mill and then work my way up from there.. There is not a Haas on my map in the next 1 or so, but that does not mean it is not down the road a bit when the time is right... Who knows.. I still shoot more than I mill and until that changes due to income levels, I can stick with a Tormach for a bit. But thanks for the great advise and it will be on my mind as I shop for my next mill later this year. One nice thing about photography is that is does buy very well so it does not take TOO long to save up for new tools if you put your mind to it and get out and shoot!
http://713maker.com/ Custom aluminum and carbon fiber hot end mounts for the Rostock Max and Orion.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by bot » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:11 am

Not to sidetrack too much more from your amazing product (got mine opened up today -- beautiful work! Anodizing is fantastic. thank you) but I was wondering where I should start to get into low-level aluminum milling like you?

I've got a spare smoothieboard 5xc kicking around. I'd love to make something like the x-carve or whatever, but I'd rather get your input into the best way to approach it from scratch.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by JFettig » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:12 am

I guess what I was hoping to convey is that you can pick up a used VMC for under 10 grand pretty readily.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by bvandiepenbos » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:33 am

bot wrote:Not to sidetrack too much more from your amazing product (got mine opened up today -- beautiful work! Anodizing is fantastic. thank you) but I was wondering where I should start to get into low-level aluminum milling like you?

I've got a spare smoothieboard 5xc kicking around. I'd love to make something like the x-carve or whatever, but I'd rather get your input into the best way to approach it from scratch.


I would look at the "C-Machine" from OpenBuilds.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by travelphotog » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:34 am

bot wrote:Not to sidetrack too much more from your amazing product (got mine opened up today -- beautiful work! Anodizing is fantastic. thank you) but I was wondering where I should start to get into low-level aluminum milling like you?

I've got a spare smoothieboard 5xc kicking around. I'd love to make something like the x-carve or whatever, but I'd rather get your input into the best way to approach it from scratch.



I would highly suggest looking at a mill a step above the X Carve style mills. Ditch the belt driven mills, they are just not suited for metal work. If I had it to do over again I would have started out with something like this http://www.bulldogcncrouters.com/
15x15a50.jpg

15x15b50.jpg

Barring of course a VMC like we were talking about above. If you are doing sheet work like most of what I do, you can get away with a good sturdy mill like above and be very happy. I have seen one of these in action and I was pretty impressed (though it ran MACH3 and I hated that part). For the price this mill is really good. I have gotten good results from the XC mill, but the belts alone are a huge issue and something you fight none stop. Being ridge above all else is the biggest issue you need to over come. You really can not be too stiff on the spindle mount/gantry side of things and the belts become a weak point their fast. My .8KW spindle will destroy the XC if I try to cut too fast with a 1/4 endmill.

These mills are full ball screw driven and much better suited to aluminum work than a X Carve or even a Shapeoko 3 is. The OKO 3 is a good mill, but it is still belt driven and they even used a belt drive for the Z axis over a even a leadscrew. You will want NEMA 23 motors and I would personally go with Leadshine DSP drivers. You will also need to look into the software side of things for sending the Gcode and such which also wraps back into the controller being used. I would check out the Planet CNC controllers http://www.planet-cnc.com/index.php?page=features. I run their MK3/4 on the OKO and the MK3 on the XC and my full ball screw mill. They do not run the limited GRBL like the stock OKO and XC do, but instead run full RS274/NGC G-code. I am not aware of what you would be running on the smoothie board for the controller. Planet CNC uses their own GUI/Gcode sender and I have found it better than MACH3, UGS, and Chilipeppr for my uses.

Plan on enclosing the mill from the very start as the chips will get everywhere if you do not. Enclosing my mills was one of the best things I did after switching to Planet NC controllers and Leadshine DSP drivers. Next best thing was going to a VFD spindle over a router type spindle. For me milling indoors, the router was just not an option due to noise alone and also due to it being limited to too high speed of RPM for other materials like plastic and such over all.

If you go any larger than the mills above in a gantry style mill, you need dual drive on the Y axis or you will start to run into issues with cuts on the outer edges shifting under force. Looking at your new Delta printer and the effector plate, you should be able to mill that sort of thing on the mills pictured above with ease. I have seen some pretty impressive work come off the bulldogs and I plan to either buy or build one to replace the XC this year in addition to a VMC like we were speaking about above.

BTW your mounts were determined to NOT reach you. We sent them out and they went to the local USPS hub, then were sent right back to my return address (which I only check about once a week as it is offsite). Some fool looked at the FROM address instead of the TO which clearly started Canada. So we had to go about resending them out to you and making sure USPS picked up that tab for the second try. The first time we took it back the counter person was like "oh just redo the label and bring it back in". I did not agree with that idea. But it all got sorted and glad to hear the mounts arrived and everything looks good.
http://713maker.com/ Custom aluminum and carbon fiber hot end mounts for the Rostock Max and Orion.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by bvandiepenbos » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:40 am

JFettig wrote:I guess what I was hoping to convey is that you can pick up a used VMC for under 10 grand pretty readily.


Sources? That is exactly the next step I am looking to do.
Thought about the Tormach, but really prefer a 5-axis VMC.
Currently using a CNC Bridgeport knee mill.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by bot » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:01 pm

travelphotog wrote:
bot wrote:Not to sidetrack too much more from your amazing product (got mine opened up today -- beautiful work! Anodizing is fantastic. thank you) but I was wondering where I should start to get into low-level aluminum milling like you?

I've got a spare smoothieboard 5xc kicking around. I'd love to make something like the x-carve or whatever, but I'd rather get your input into the best way to approach it from scratch.



I would highly suggest looking at a mill a step above the X Carve style mills. Ditch the belt driven mills, they are just not suited for metal work. If I had it to do over again I would have started out with something like this http://www.bulldogcncrouters.com/
15x15a50.jpg

15x15b50.jpg

Barring of course a VMC like we were talking about above. If you are doing sheet work like most of what I do, you can get away with a good sturdy mill like above and be very happy. I have seen one of these in action and I was pretty impressed (though it ran MACH3 and I hated that part). For the price this mill is really good. I have gotten good results from the XC mill, but the belts alone are a huge issue and something you fight none stop. Being ridge above all else is the biggest issue you need to over come. You really can not be too stiff on the spindle mount/gantry side of things and the belts become a weak point their fast. My .8KW spindle will destroy the XC if I try to cut too fast with a 1/4 endmill.

These mills are full ball screw driven and much better suited to aluminum work than a X Carve or even a Shapeoko 3 is. The OKO 3 is a good mill, but it is still belt driven and they even used a belt drive for the Z axis over a even a leadscrew. You will want NEMA 23 motors and I would personally go with Leadshine DSP drivers. You will also need to look into the software side of things for sending the Gcode and such which also wraps back into the controller being used. I would check out the Planet CNC controllers http://www.planet-cnc.com/index.php?page=features. I run their MK3/4 on the OKO and the MK3 on the XC and my full ball screw mill. They do not run the limited GRBL like the stock OKO and XC do, but instead run full RS274/NGC G-code. I am not aware of what you would be running on the smoothie board for the controller. Planet CNC uses their own GUI/Gcode sender and I have found it better than MACH3, UGS, and Chilipeppr for my uses.

Plan on enclosing the mill from the very start as the chips will get everywhere if you do not. Enclosing my mills was one of the best things I did after switching to Planet NC controllers and Leadshine DSP drivers. Next best thing was going to a VFD spindle over a router type spindle. For me milling indoors, the router was just not an option due to noise alone and also due to it being limited to too high speed of RPM for other materials like plastic and such over all.

If you go any larger than the mills above in a gantry style mill, you need dual drive on the Y axis or you will start to run into issues with cuts on the outer edges shifting under force. Looking at your new Delta printer and the effector plate, you should be able to mill that sort of thing on the mills pictured above with ease. I have seen some pretty impressive work come off the bulldogs and I plan to either buy or build one to replace the XC this year in addition to a VMC like we were speaking about above.

BTW your mounts were determined to NOT reach you. We sent them out and they went to the local USPS hub, then were sent right back to my return address (which I only check about once a week as it is offsite). Some fool looked at the FROM address instead of the TO which clearly started Canada. So we had to go about resending them out to you and making sure USPS picked up that tab for the second try. The first time we took it back the counter person was like "oh just redo the label and bring it back in". I did not agree with that idea. But it all got sorted and glad to hear the mounts arrived and everything looks good.


Thank you very much for that info! Delivery people can get so confused sometimes. I'll make a nice quick video about the mount as soon as I get my office all sorted and filmable.

Do you think a smoothieboard is not suitable to drive a mill like you talked about here? I have one already, and I'm only looking to get my toes wet with milling.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by crocky » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:58 pm

Finally got here :)

image.jpeg
Dark Orange


Now to put it together and.....
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by travelphotog » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:03 pm

crocky wrote:Finally got here :)

image.jpeg


Now to put it together and.....



Sweet!! Glad to see it held seal all the way there!! We just had to replace the sealer due to a few issues here in the house with packages not keeping seal. Looking forward to seeing it installed!
http://713maker.com/ Custom aluminum and carbon fiber hot end mounts for the Rostock Max and Orion.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by geneb » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:01 am

You REALLY need a "Vacuum Sealed For Freshness!" sticker you can put on the package. :)

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by travelphotog » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:56 am

geneb wrote:You REALLY need a "Vacuum Sealed For Freshness!" sticker you can put on the package. :)

g.



I like that idea!! It does seem to do a great job of keeping everything apart and safe from scratches in the mail. Using it for milled carbon fiber FPV racer bodies also and works great there also.
http://713maker.com/ Custom aluminum and carbon fiber hot end mounts for the Rostock Max and Orion.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by geneb » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:40 am

Even better, stick a business card in there that's got your info on the front and the "Vacuum Sealed For Freshness!" bit on the back. :)

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by KAS » Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:02 pm

Although using FoodSaver brand bags cost a fortune. We've converted to these for freezing bulk meat http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052BOEXG

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by travelphotog » Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:02 pm

KAS wrote:Although using FoodSaver brand bags cost a fortune. We've converted to these for freezing bulk meat http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052BOEXG

I picked up some new bags from amazon which I love and are half the price for more than twice the bags. We were just trying to think how to ship them if we did not use the printed boxes and thought we would give it a try. So far it has worked great and all the new orders are going out in the much nicer and cheaper bags!
http://713maker.com/ Custom aluminum and carbon fiber hot end mounts for the Rostock Max and Orion.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

Post by forrie » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:49 am

crocky wrote:Finally got here :)
Now to put it together and.....


Mine turned up on Monday, survived the 15,000km or so trip without a problem. Now it's the weekend I have the time to play around.
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