Continuos Liquid Interface (CLIP)

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artexmg
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Continuos Liquid Interface (CLIP)

Postby artexmg » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:36 pm

Hey Guys, I guess you noticed the "Continuous Liquid Interface Production" (CLIP) announcement from Carbon3D.

At first glance, I thought it same technology as LittleRP/DropLit, the hype was just marketing, nothing new. Indeed, it is A LOT of marketing :-)

BUT, also, the "only" new idea I can see, is using what they call "liquid oxygen window", instead of the "glass window". Simplifying, what I understand is that they created a oxygen layer in the bottom of the vat, permeable. So, it is possible to cure the resin on top of that oxygen+liquid resin layer, without having the cured resin stuck in the vat. Hence, they eliminate the need of up and down Z axis move. Did I get it right? see the picture below.

Carbo3D CLIP.png
CLIP vs SLA


What do you think? Sounds, at least, very interesting!

Here is the link of a "sumplementary" material for the paper they published: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl ... ton.SM.pdf

Cheers

Polygonhell
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Re: Continuos Liquid Interface (CLIP)

Postby Polygonhell » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:53 pm

The consensus from those who've looked at the patents appears to be the novelty is using the relatively new PTFE AF 2400 sheet tensioned as what hobbyists call a stretch vat. This alleviates the need to break the surface seal so you can print continuously. That's the bulk of the speed win, the rest is in resin formulation.

Note the current cost of PTFE AF2400 from Dupont is $1800 per 25g, so not a very hobbyist friendly material to experiment with.

The PTFE allows air to permeate into the lower levels of the resin and you end up with a tiny <20 micron layer where the resin will not solidify.
The patent also suggests using pressure to force the gas through the membrane and increase the depth of this layer.

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artexmg
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Re: Continuos Liquid Interface (CLIP)

Postby artexmg » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:55 am

Polygonhell wrote:The consensus from those who've looked at the patents appears to be the novelty is using the relatively new PTFE AF 2400 sheet tensioned as what hobbyists call a stretch vat. This alleviates the need to break the surface seal so you can print continuously. That's the bulk of the speed win, the rest is in resin formulation.

Note the current cost of PTFE AF2400 from Dupont is $1800 per 25g, so not a very hobbyist friendly material to experiment with.

The PTFE allows air to permeate into the lower levels of the resin and you end up with a tiny <20 micron layer where the resin will not solidify.
The patent also suggests using pressure to force the gas through the membrane and increase the depth of this layer.


Well ... at a such price tag, I think I prefer my prints to take more time (hour vs minutes, they say); While I wait for the prints to finish, with the money saved and time to spare, I can do a lot of things, for instance, build a new droplit or a rostock :-)

Turner
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Re: Continuos Liquid Interface (CLIP)

Postby Turner » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:21 pm

Have any of you considered trying a cheap alternative, like this?

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/pro ... &region=US

or this?
http://www.kordon.com/kordon/products/a ... #suppliers!

I'm sure they won't last as long, but they are pretty cheap!

Turner
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Re: Continuos Liquid Interface (CLIP)

Postby Turner » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:09 pm

Here is a source for some bags that are pretty cheap, $10 for 50, and it looks like one side has no print on it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-7-X-10-Ultim ... 463ddf50d4

I think it would be pretty simple to make a jig to stretch it and use it on the Droplit?

RESIN_NORBO
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Re: Continuos Liquid Interface (CLIP)

Postby RESIN_NORBO » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:33 am

What about these Polymethylpentene petri dishes.
http://www.coleparmer.com/Product/Thermo_Scientific_Nalgene_Autoclavable_Petri_Dishes_PMP_100_x_15_mm_10_pk/EW-06143-20
Polymethylpentene seems to be gas permable, but would this be enough to stop the resin from curing due to the O2 penetrating through from the bottom?

I think the fish bags (breather bags) are also a good idea, would they be transparent enough. I onyl found some with printings on them.

I also found that Polyurethan is quite gas permable:
Maybe something like this would work to create a vat.
http://tewipackshop.de/de/Gie-harz-PURe-Durchsicht-ST44-0414DST44250?gclid=CLKHoJjX7McCFSjlwgod_xML1w


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