What's going on with this?

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McSlappy
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What's going on with this?

Postby McSlappy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:49 am

Been using Kiss for a long time but have recently decided to bite the S3D bullet since I'd like to just have 1 piece of software to run all 3 machines...

Anyway I've had some weird issues - see pic.
Image

Left is s3d, right is Kiss.

Both using similar settings
Kiss: 0.94 extrusion rate. S3d: 0.92 extrusion rate (I tried 1.00 down to 0.92 with the same wobbly effect)
Min layer time was set to 20s so most of these towers were printed fairly slowly
ABS at 230/110 on both
Printed the s3d part then the kiss part right afterwards
same filament
no fan at all

If anything it appears to me that both are under-extruding, but the blobbing on the s3d side I usually take to be indicative of too much filament.

This blobbing sticky-out thing on the s3d part also happens on larger pieces...

Anyway I dunno what's going on, any ideas?
I loved my Rostock so much I now sell them in Oz :)

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Jimustanguitar
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Re: What's going on with this?

Postby Jimustanguitar » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:02 am

Increase your outline overlap, I've had to do this quite a bit with S3D. Something like 30%, I think.

I bought S3D after this newest release, and while I'm still wowed by its feature list, I'm not thrilled with its out of the box print quality. I've had to do quite a bit of tweaking, and still use Cura for things that need to be cosmetically pleasing.

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Re: What's going on with this?

Postby Polygonhell » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:11 pm

FWIW I still think S3D has issues with quantizing coordinates that can show up on prints like this.
The reason I believe this is if I print a model with S3D that had fine detail on a vertical surface, S3d will basically remove large portions of it, KISS and Cura don't do this.
I suspect the first thing S3D does is quantize the coordinates fairly aggressively and merge line segments that are close to co-linear, if this isn't done carefully you'll end up with the stepping your seeing on long tapers.

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Re: What's going on with this?

Postby bot » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:16 pm

I think it's cooling related. Is the fan speed set the same? Have you got "Print islands sequentially without optimization" unchecked? I would check it if I were printing this.
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Re: What's going on with this?

Postby JFettig » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:54 pm

S3d has so many more variables that it takes a little time to dial it in. Print speeds don't seem to correlate with kiss either.

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Re: What's going on with this?

Postby bubbasnow » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:17 am

i agree it looks like on the s3d side some more tuning with retractions/extra extrusions on moves type of issue.

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Re: What's going on with this?

Postby McSlappy » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:04 am

Jimustanguitar wrote:Increase your outline overlap, I've had to do this quite a bit with S3D. Something like 30%, I think.

I bought S3D after this newest release, and while I'm still wowed by its feature list, I'm not thrilled with its out of the box print quality. I've had to do quite a bit of tweaking, and still use Cura for things that need to be cosmetically pleasing.


I'm testing this now, thanks.

bot wrote:I think it's cooling related. Is the fan speed set the same? Have you got "Print islands sequentially without optimization" unchecked? I would check it if I were printing this.


Ignore the tips of those spikes, yes its too hot for those things, I'm trying to figure out the odd waviness at the bases.

Polygonhell wrote:FWIW I still think S3D has issues with quantizing coordinates that can show up on prints like this.
The reason I believe this is if I print a model with S3D that had fine detail on a vertical surface, S3d will basically remove large portions of it, KISS and Cura don't do this.
I suspect the first thing S3D does is quantize the coordinates fairly aggressively and merge line segments that are close to co-linear, if this isn't done carefully you'll end up with the stepping your seeing on long tapers.


Interesting. Any way to change this?

I reinstalled s3d and have been tweaking some of the suggestions today. So far they're looking much better, though not quite as good as Kiss. I'll keep tweaking and post results.
I loved my Rostock so much I now sell them in Oz :)

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Re: What's going on with this?

Postby McSlappy » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:08 pm

Well some more testing and such did improve that wobble. The 30% overlap seemed to help the most.

As good as I got it, the difference between it and what Kiss would produce is still too great for me to use it full time. Actually kind of disappointed.

I'll keep playing with it, but Kiss is just consistently superior. I could just suck at tuning it.
I loved my Rostock so much I now sell them in Oz :)

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Re: What's going on with this?

Postby mhackney » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:20 pm

You all know that I'm a KISS aficionado. I love it. But, I took a shot on the S3D v3 that came out now that it has infill support. I spent a fair amount of time tuning and understanding how it slices. Other than a bug I found with certain types of perimeter geometry I have to say that I really like v3. I have it dialed in and getting as good of results as I did with KISS. And, with the multiple processes I'm able to do things that I can't possible do in another slicer without a lot of manual splicing.

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