Assembly manual discussion thread!

Discussions related to the Rostock MAX v2
dtgriscom
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dtgriscom » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:31 pm

More suggestions, from version 1.10 of the manual:

  • On page 61, add "Make sure ends of the aluminum tower extrusions are clean; sometimes they arrive with sharp edges that will cut the wires."
  • On page 68, do NOT run the wires out the wire guide slots as shown in Figure 6-13; that would make it much harder to adjust the wires in the "Wire Routing" section, page 98 (which ends with a description of routing the wires out the wire guide slots; see figures 10-7, 10-8 and 10-9).
  • On page 69, when installing the X tower, make sure that the insulated spade lug connectors are on the top and the female crimp connectors are on the bottom.
  • On page 72, make sure you install the upper tower mounts in the correct side of the top section base plate. See figure 7-8 for the correct orientation. (I got to page 93 before I realized I'd done it wrong; someone else seems to have made it to page 115.)
  • On page 80, the list doesn't specify how many #6-32 x 1/2" SS screws are needed (3)
  • On page 81, warn the reader that the inside carriage plates aren't L/R symmetric. The language necessary is a bit tough, here's my best shot: "You need to assemble the carrier bases on the side where the bearing mounting holes on the right are slightly further apart vertically. (If you're doing it correctly, then if you align one of the outside carriage plates on top then the SeeMeCNC logo will be backwards (because in this orientation it actually belongs behind the inside carriage plate)."

Thanks,
Dan

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dtgriscom » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:19 am

One more: on page 99 it says "[INSERT ILLUSTRATION OF WIRE ROUTE]".

More generally, it would be wonderful to have a complete wiring diagram for the printer. I'd be happy to draw it if you tell me what format you'd like (e.g. aspect ratio).


Dan

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by geneb » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:48 am

A wire diagram would be great, thanks!

Don't worry about the size, I'll have to resize it on insert anyway.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dtgriscom » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:54 pm

How is this as a prototype? I'll redraw it with a graphics program, but I wanted to check on some aspects first:

  • How's the aspect ratio?
  • How's the layout? Does it make sense? (I'm pretty proud that there's not a single crossed wire.)
  • Is the notation about wire bundles clear (e.g. the "slash 6" on the wires between the power supply and the RAMBo means "six wires")?
  • Did I get everything? Did I make any mistakes?


Let me know,
Dan
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Rostock MAX v2 Wiring Diagram 0.01.pdf
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dtgriscom » Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:23 pm

More comments:

  • Page 93: Consider postponing installing the upper idler bearings even further (until after the top wiring is done)
  • Page 101: you need six plastic bearing rollers, not three
  • Page 102: when routing the timing belt up the outside of the tower, it should go under the CheapSkate outside carriage plate.
  • Page 108, "Assembling the EZStruder and Filament Holder": the list is mis-numbered, just about everything on it appears in other lists, and you aren't going to deal with the filament holder until page 135. So, I'm thinking you could punt this list altogether. The only thing you'd need to do is to add the stepper motor and PTF connector to the list on page 109 (making it clear that they aren't part of the EZStruder hardware pack).
  • Page 111: my hardware pack came with the two metric pan head screws, plus two extra flat-head screws (#6-32 x 7/8"?). So, you might identify the metric screws as "pan head" to make it clearer.
  • Page 112: the list should include the white plastic manual feed gear.
  • Page 113, figure 12-9: the top red arrow is wrong; it points to one of the screws mounting the filament guide block to the stepper motor. It should instead point to the screw head furthest to the right.
  • Page 113: on my unit, the mounting screw holes in the filament guide block were very tight; if this is consistent, you might want to mention it so the reader won't wonder whether they have the right holes.

Thanks as always,
Dan

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dgriff » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:04 am

dtgriscom wrote:Page 113: on my unit, the mounting screw holes in the filament guide block were very tight; if this is consistent, you might want to mention it so the reader won't wonder whether they have the right holes.

Same issue with mine - the black guide block screw holes were spaced about 1/16" too close together, which made attaching the block to the stepper very difficult. I finally got them fitting properly with some brute force, but shouldn't have been that hard.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by geneb » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:41 am

dtgriscom wrote:How is this as a prototype? I'll redraw it with a graphics program, but I wanted to check on some aspects first:

  • How's the aspect ratio?
  • How's the layout? Does it make sense? (I'm pretty proud that there's not a single crossed wire.)
  • Is the notation about wire bundles clear (e.g. the "slash 6" on the wires between the power supply and the RAMBo means "six wires")?
  • Did I get everything? Did I make any mistakes?


It looks ok to me - the only issue I see is the need for a legend that lets people know about the "/#" notation. It should look really cool though. :) Thanks.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dgriff » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:57 pm

Just a thought - wonder if it might be worth adding some ABS filament to the recommended parts list - for printing the fan shrouds and such?

I only ordered mine with PLA, and being a newb, didn't realize that I needed ABS to print the shrouds before I was able to print PLA parts with the cooling fan.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by geneb » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:28 pm

It's my understanding that they'll be including ABS filament with the v2 kits soon.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by edge922 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:36 pm

I can confirm that when I ordered mine on Saturday at MRRF I was told it would come with a spool of ABS.

Gene, do you want typo, grammar, consistency corrections/suggestions as well or just technical detail. And would you prefere those to come in this thread or PM?

Also, if possible please add a gutter to the margins for binding/hole punching purposes. (ie. more margin on the left of odd pages and more margin on the right of even pages.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Follow My Rostock MAX V2 Build in progress.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dtgriscom » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:28 am

Someone else noted that on page 7 you call for a 7/16" Allen (hex) wrench, but that's a really big wrench, and there seems to be no need for it. Typo, right?

And, on page 81, the u-joint carrier base is tightened down by using a "7/16 hex wrench and a 5/16 wrench"; these aren't the right sizes (not sure what are), and the smaller one is the hex (Allen) wrench.


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Dan

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by geneb » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:49 pm

edge922 wrote:I can confirm that when I ordered mine on Saturday at MRRF I was told it would come with a spool of ABS.

Gene, do you want typo, grammar, consistency corrections/suggestions as well or just technical detail. And would you prefere those to come in this thread or PM?

Also, if possible please add a gutter to the margins for binding/hole punching purposes. (ie. more margin on the left of odd pages and more margin on the right of even pages.)


If I reconfigure the margins, it'll cause no end of formatting problems. :)

Any comments are welcome.
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by geneb » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:49 pm

dtgriscom wrote:Someone else noted that on page 7 you call for a 7/16" Allen (hex) wrench, but that's a really big wrench, and there seems to be no need for it. Typo, right?

And, on page 81, the u-joint carrier base is tightened down by using a "7/16 hex wrench and a 5/16 wrench"; these aren't the right sizes (not sure what are), and the smaller one is the hex (Allen) wrench.


Thanks,
Dan


Added to the list. Thanks Dan.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dtgriscom » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:29 pm

I have the timing belts installed, but on each CheapSkate the belt end hangs down around 4", and I can see them flopping about when I start actually printing. Should I trim them off (perhaps leaving a free inch)?


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Dan

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by Jimustanguitar » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:50 am

dtgriscom wrote:I have the timing belts installed, but on each CheapSkate the belt end hangs down around 4", and I can see them flopping about when I start actually printing. Should I trim them off (perhaps leaving a free inch)?


Thanks,
Dan


You can do this if you like. I hesitate to cut things like this too, but as long as you've got the right length, that dimension shouldn't change.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dtgriscom » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:12 am

Jimustanguitar wrote:
dtgriscom wrote:I have the timing belts installed, but on each CheapSkate the belt end hangs down around 4", and I can see them flopping about when I start actually printing. Should I trim them off (perhaps leaving a free inch)?

You can do this if you like. I hesitate to cut things like this too, but as long as you've got the right length, that dimension shouldn't change.

Sounds good. So, manual suggestion for page 107: suggest trimming belt to 1" beyond bottom of belt clamp (AFTER confirming proper path and reasonable tension!).

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dtgriscom » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:20 am

More manual suggestions (pages based on V1.20):

  • It's a bit confusing how Appendix A: Quick Disconnects is woven into the rest of the text. Users need to know what parts of the main text to skip, and when to return to the main text after doing some work in the appendix. Perhaps you could more explicitly divide the appendix into sections, and be clear about what pages in the main text are replaced by which sections.
  • In Appendix A, I had a tough time getting the crimp-on connectors to work. That's just me, but you might want to warn people that they need to test the connections carefully (including pull-testing) or they might end up with a flaky printer.
  • Pages 122 and 230: change "By this time, the RTV in your hot end should be fully cured (make sure you've let it cure for at least 24 hours)..." to "By this time, either the RTV in your hot end is fully cured (for at least 24 hours) or you are drinking way too much coffee."
  • Pages 122 and 230: after bending resistor leads, cut off so as to reach only halfway into the crimp connectors.
  • Pages 123 and 231: crimp the black wire to the resistor leads nearest the thermistor leads. (Hope this doesn't really matter, because I did it the other way.)
  • Page 233: Cut the four wires to the same length before stripping and crimping.

Thanks,
Dan

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by Segrest » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:32 pm

I finished building my new V2 machine this afternoon and was able to print the PEEK fan shroud without any difficulty.

But when I went to put the fan into the shroud it was very tight. I lined it up carefully and pressed it in using an arbor press. It was too tight and the shroud failed. I did some measuring and the shroud I printed was about 0.3-0.5 mm too small for both the width and thickness of the fan. (My fan being notably about this much bigger than its nominally stated size.)

As this is the first time I have done this I am not sure what my options are.
Is there some reason my printer may have printed the part a bit too small?
Is there a way to tweak the dimensions of a part after it has been rendered as an stl file?

If this isn't the right thread to ask these questions, please feel free to politely guide me in the right direction.

Bob

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by cgbobio » Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:48 pm

I filed mine a little before inserting the fan, but had the same problem with it being too small... Everything else on mine fit fine though.
Last edited by cgbobio on Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by geneb » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:15 pm

The shroud should print properly as-is. You may need to repeat the extruder calibration process to tweak things a bit. It should print properly at that point.

I'm finishing some updates right now and then I'm gonna go lay down. :)

The new version will be 1.25 dated 22Mar14.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dgriff » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:20 pm

Segrest wrote:when I went to put the fan into the shroud it was very tight. I lined it up carefully and pressed it in using an arbor press. It was too tight and the shroud failed. I did some measuring and the shroud I printed was about 0.3-0.5 mm too small for both the width and thickness of the fan. (My fan being notably about this much bigger than its nominally stated size.)

I dialed down the extrusion multiplier in the slic3r setting and that helped get the shroud printed so the fan fit properly. Setting to 0.55 caused gaps in the filament, however setting to 0.7 seemed perfect for my printer and caused it to fit perfectly. As Gene said, doing a precise calibration on the extruder will probably help dial this in a lot more accurately too (my task for next week, as soon as I get a bit of time to myself).

I'm struggling with getting ABS to stick to my glass plate for the PLA cooling duct - the glue-stick layer isn't working for me (though it seemed OK on prints with larger bases like the first PEEK shroud) - it always seems to detach just as it's starting the bridging around layer 44, (which droops a bit - apparently slowing flow rate down will help with this). Going to try switching to the hairspray technique to see if that has any better success.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dtgriscom » Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:08 pm

Gene, thanks for the update. I'm working up some criticism as we speak :)

I've just mounted the effector platform and arms to the Cheapskates, and I'm a bit worried about the friction. From the manual for the v1 MAX, I imagined that the u-joints would be almost frictionless, and indeed when I put the u-joints on the axles they spun quite nicely. However, after installing them and the spring clips, on both the Cheapskates and the effector platform, the friction was significantly increased, as if the spring clips were clamping the u-joints too tightly. And now, with the arms installed, the arm-to-u-joint bearing also has some real friction, as if the holes in the arms were too snug on the u-joints. I even put white lithium grease into all the joints before assembly, and it didn't seem to help much.

Yes, it all moves, and I can't feel any binding points. But, how do I know if it's smooth enough to prevent getting :shock: The Delta Arm Blues :shock: ?

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dtgriscom » Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:17 pm

Answer: I know it's too tight. If I leave it alone for a few minutes, and then try to move things, the joints creak. And that's bad.

Any suggestions on how to improve this? Stretch out the spring clips so they aren't too tight? Gently ream out the holes in the delta arms?

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by geneb » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:37 pm

I actually had the same concern when I built Casper, but as you can see from the two fan shrouds, it doesn't seem to be a problem at all. I've printed a larger object (the spam hammer), the infill/perimeter mate was tight and there were no gaps between the perimeter tracks.

I'd recommend just making sure the mold flashing is cleaned off and go with it. Better off not fiddling with it until an actual problem manifests itself.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Post by dtgriscom » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:38 am

geneb wrote:I'd recommend just making sure the mold flashing is cleaned off and go with it. Better off not fiddling with it until an actual problem manifests itself.

I was pretty careful about cleaning the flashing from the surfaces of the arms, as well as cleaning out detritus from the arm holes. I didn't check for flashing on the u-joint carriers, though.

When clipping the arms onto the u-joint pins, there were several where the holes seemed too small for the pins, and which required significant force to slide on.

My concern on the "wait and see" is that I have zero experience with the proper and improper behaviors of 3D printers. If this causes a problem, will it be clear what is causing the problem?

I think I'll suspend this portion of the assembly, go on to the RAMBo wiring and testing, and consider. (Thanks.)

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