Assembly manual discussion thread!

Discussions related to the Rostock MAX v2
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby Java » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:55 am

I wanted to chime in to say that I recently completed my MAX V2 build, with zero defects. ;)

My only quibble is that the screen capped MatterControl images are different than the current version of MatterControl. Apparently the GUI changed a little? No biggie really because I was able to figure it out.

Good manual. Thanks.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby Mac The Knife » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:40 am

Gotta love mattercontrol for that, just when you think you have it figured out, they change it up. So I bought a license of S3D.
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby markwhelan » Fri May 01, 2015 7:07 pm

How are you getting on with S3D? I also purchased S3D but i cant get as good a print result as MC

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby Mac The Knife » Fri May 01, 2015 7:19 pm

not bad. I started a year ago with Repetier Host, and Slic3r. I would try Mattercontrol when an update was announced, but I always went back to slic3r. I'm slowly getting S3d figured out, and it ain't bad. I haven't gotten frustrated with it like I did with mattercontrol.
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby VAXHeadroom » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:01 am

A few assembly notes, some related to the manual, some to the parts themselves.
  • Page 9 (and sections 21 and 22): the fan shrouds were included in my kit, so a roll of ABS plastic was not required to make them.
  • Page 28 HIGHLY recommend adding thermal paste in between the hot block and the nozzle. The thermal transfer across threaded surfaces is really not very good, and really the only part we actually WANT hot is the very top of the nozzle where the plastic touches it! If added, this needs to be added to optional parts list, Page 10.
  • Page 29 Just a thought on the RTV - this stuff isn't really designed to transfer heat, but apparently it works well enough. But the thermal transfer from the resistors to the nozzle is so highly critical in these applications it really makes me wonder why the hot ends are aluminum? Brass transfers heat 3x better than aluminum - why aren't the hot blocks made of brass? Similarly, stainless transfers heat even more poorly then aluminum - is the tube between the hot block and the PEEK section aluminum or stainless? I realize this is really a question about hot-end engineering, not the manual, but this is where I came to this in the manual :D
  • Page 75,76 The plastic washers used as separators between the mounting plate and top plate of the base were too thick - I had to substitute 2 metal washers at each location. I don't *THINK* I used the wrong screws as I wasn't short any others but maybe?
  • Page 79 the 18ga 4 conductor wire did not have a drain wire in it, making it difficult to strip the outer insulation. It had nylon instead which could not be used as a stripper. The 22ga wire did.
  • Page 91 As others have said, the orientation of the base plate for the top section is easy to get upside down, and takes about a half hour to disassemble and flip. :roll: The part should really have TOP cut into it somewhere...
  • Page 133,138,140 In my filament guide block, the metal cylinder was installed upside down. I didn't realize this until I went to attach the push fit connector (Page 140). It was easy to fix, but you should add a check to page 138 to check before installing.
  • Page 146 (only because this is the first place wires are soldered), heat shrink is REALLY the way to go. I recommend adding a heat shrink kit it to the optional parts list, Page 10.
  • Page 194,229 I got the stepper motors that had connectors without keys. I plugged them into the RAMBO with wires in the shown orientation - and they all worked backwards. The easiest way to fix that is just turn the connectors around. There really should be some check for this prior to calibration!!
  • Page 198 the mounting orientation of the on/off switch is not specified. Since on and off aren't marked on the switch, I guessed, and then had to re-mount it. I mean, UP really needs to be ON right?!? ;)
  • Page 205 the acrylic cover for the X axis didn't fit between the on/off switch and the front cover plate and I had to nip a corner off the acrylic to make it fit. Was this because of the orientation of my on/off switch?
  • Page 236 Paper? REALLY??? PLEASE strongly recommend 0.1mm feeler gauge instead. If you take this suggestion, a feeler gauge set needs to be added to Page 10.
  • Page 249 IMHO the purple glue is a HORRIBLE idea. Kapton tape and Acetone/ABS slurry works perfectly for both ABS and PLA and gives flat smooth prints on the bottom surfaces. I could not get parts to reliably stick with the glue. If you were to recommend it, Acetone and 2" to 6" Kapton needs to be added to the options parts list on Page 10. <-- STRONGLY RECOMMENDED (maybe not so humble opinion? ;) )
  • General: Wiring is never checked for continuity? Recommend adding a multimeter to the optional parts list (Page 10) and adding resistance checks for the wires as you assemble them - especially stuff that has to be soldered. WAY easier/faster to check and fix before buttoning things up!! I didn't have any issues with this actually, but as an engineer it came to mind :) It would also let you know unusual stuff like the fact that the end stop switches are normally open, not normally closed :)
  • Parts rant: I *REALLY* wish all the screws were metric cap head screws! IMHO everything on these printers should be METRIC and assembled with METRIC hex keys, not phillips head screws! /rant
These are all minor nits. The manual is REALLY good. I built my Max V2 in 18.5 hours. I videoed the whole thing w 2 cameras in HD. I'm a few hours into the video editing, don't expect it soon, but I'll post it here when I get it up on YouTube. I'm getting GORGEOUS prints in both PLA and ABS. I have a Makerbot Thing-o-Matic at home and a Leapfrog Creatr at work - this one blows the Creatr out of the water. I've had LOTS of problems with the Creatr - NONE with this so far :) I have 3 years experience with the Makerbot (which still works great), so I got into 3D printing pretty early and have lots of experience. I really look forward to helping on forums here!

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby geneb » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:30 am

VAXHeadroom wrote:A few assembly notes, some related to the manual, some to the parts themselves.
  • Page 9 (and sections 21 and 22): the fan shrouds were included in my kit, so a roll of ABS plastic was not required to make them.

This is very unusual. I've never heard of them doing this.
  • Page 28 HIGHLY recommend adding thermal paste in between the hot block and the nozzle. The thermal transfer across threaded surfaces is really not very good, and really the only part we actually WANT hot is the very top of the nozzle where the plastic touches it! If added, this needs to be added to optional parts list, Page 10.

  • Not necessary at all.
  • Page 29 Just a thought on the RTV - this stuff isn't really designed to transfer heat, but apparently it works well enough. But the thermal transfer from the resistors to the nozzle is so highly critical in these applications it really makes me wonder why the hot ends are aluminum? Brass transfers heat 3x better than aluminum - why aren't the hot blocks made of brass? Similarly, stainless transfers heat even more poorly then aluminum - is the tube between the hot block and the PEEK section aluminum or stainless? I realize this is really a question about hot-end engineering, not the manual, but this is where I came to this in the manual :D

  • In this case, the RTV is more of an easily removable, high temperature adhesive. The hot end is made from aluminum because aluminum sheds heat better than brass does. The nozzle needs to have some thermal mass to it, whereas the heater block does not.
  • Page 75,76 The plastic washers used as separators between the mounting plate and top plate of the base were too thick - I had to substitute 2 metal washers at each location. I don't *THINK* I used the wrong screws as I wasn't short any others but maybe?

  • The nylon spacers are the correct thickness. I've been teaching a group of high and middle school teachers how to build the Rostock MAX this week - they're all using the same spacers you are. :)
  • Page 79 the 18ga 4 conductor wire did not have a drain wire in it, making it difficult to strip the outer insulation. It had nylon instead which could not be used as a stripper. The 22ga wire did.

  • The 18ga wire HAS a drain wire, but is missing the nylon cord. The nylon cord is used to strip the jacket as the drain wire isn't strong enough for the task. (I suspect their source for the 18ga wire changed vendors and the vendor doesn't include the nylon cord.)
  • Page 91 As others have said, the orientation of the base plate for the top section is easy to get upside down, and takes about a half hour to disassemble and flip. :roll: The part should really have TOP cut into it somewhere...

  • This has been fixed in the 3rd Edition, which should be out of QC soon. :)
  • Page 133,138,140 In my filament guide block, the metal cylinder was installed upside down. I didn't realize this until I went to attach the push fit connector (Page 140). It was easy to fix, but you should add a check to page 138 to check before installing.

  • That's the first time anyone has mentioned to me that this has happened. Curious. :)
  • Page 146 (only because this is the first place wires are soldered), heat shrink is REALLY the way to go. I recommend adding a heat shrink kit it to the optional parts list, Page 10.

  • Not my call. I'm only the docu-monkey. :D
  • Page 194,229 I got the stepper motors that had connectors without keys. I plugged them into the RAMBO with wires in the shown orientation - and they all worked backwards. The easiest way to fix that is just turn the connectors around. There really should be some check for this prior to calibration!!

  • If they all worked backwards, you didn't install them according to the instructions. :)
  • Page 198 the mounting orientation of the on/off switch is not specified. Since on and off aren't marked on the switch, I guessed, and then had to re-mount it. I mean, UP really needs to be ON right?!? ;)

  • User choice.
  • Page 205 the acrylic cover for the X axis didn't fit between the on/off switch and the front cover plate and I had to nip a corner off the acrylic to make it fit. Was this because of the orientation of my on/off switch?

  • Possibly.
  • Page 236 Paper? REALLY??? PLEASE strongly recommend 0.1mm feeler gauge instead. If you take this suggestion, a feeler gauge set needs to be added to Page 10.

  • Yes, REALLY. If you think that's bad, you're gonna hate the NEW process. You do that one by eye. :D
  • Page 249 IMHO the purple glue is a HORRIBLE idea. Kapton tape and Acetone/ABS slurry works perfectly for both ABS and PLA and gives flat smooth prints on the bottom surfaces. I could not get parts to reliably stick with the glue. If you were to recommend it, Acetone and 2" to 6" Kapton needs to be added to the options parts list on Page 10. <-- STRONGLY RECOMMENDED (maybe not so humble opinion? ;) )

  • The glue works perfectly. Everyone has their own pet way of doing things. The glue stick is the most newbie friendly method available and it works well.
  • General: Wiring is never checked for continuity? Recommend adding a multimeter to the optional parts list (Page 10) and adding resistance checks for the wires as you assemble them - especially stuff that has to be soldered. WAY easier/faster to check and fix before buttoning things up!! I didn't have any issues with this actually, but as an engineer it came to mind :) It would also let you know unusual stuff like the fact that the end stop switches are normally open, not normally closed :)

  • Not a bad idea. I was discussing that one with one of my students yesterday. The only problem is that it has the potential to add a single-use expense to the kit cost. Not everyone that's got a 3D printer may need a meter laying around. [Now you and I know that _everyone_ should have at least two meters, but we're nerds and don't count. :D :D :D]
  • Parts rant: I *REALLY* wish all the screws were metric cap head screws! IMHO everything on these printers should be METRIC and assembled with METRIC hex keys, not phillips head screws! /rant

  • I'll be the last one to argue this point, but remember, I'm just the monkey that writes the manuals. :D
    These are all minor nits. The manual is REALLY good. I built my Max V2 in 18.5 hours. I videoed the whole thing w 2 cameras in HD. I'm a few hours into the video editing, don't expect it soon, but I'll post it here when I get it up on YouTube. I'm getting GORGEOUS prints in both PLA and ABS. I have a Makerbot Thing-o-Matic at home and a Leapfrog Creatr at work - this one blows the Creatr out of the water. I've had LOTS of problems with the Creatr - NONE with this so far :) I have 3 years experience with the Makerbot (which still works great), so I got into 3D printing pretty early and have lots of experience. I really look forward to helping on forums here!

    I'm glad you liked it! The 3rd Ed. has blown up to 328 pages. I'm hoping they'll get the review done soon.

    BTW, getting a Rostock MAX balances the Karma hit you took for buying a Makerbot. :D

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby VAXHeadroom » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:54 pm

    "BTW, getting a Rostock MAX balances the Karma hit you took for buying a Makerbot. :D"

    heh. Actually somebody gave it to me on basically permanent loan :) He had bought it as a kit and couldn't get it working. I finished it, and fixed some of his errors and I've kept it and updated it with 3D printed parts over time. I'm amazed how well it works. Actually the heated build plate just gave out on me and I acquired another one (with through hole connector pins instead of surface mount) for $10.

    Oh, and I'm wondering how my 18.5 hours stacks up?

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby IMBoring25 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:18 pm

    I was concerned about smacking the melamine too hard, so yes the screws are borderline length. I wound up installing the screws without the bed and using them to draw the T-nuts up to the point where they would reach with the bed in place.

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby geneb » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:45 am

    I ran a 3 day workshop this last week showing high and middle school teachers how to build the Rostock MAX v2 (pics in a new thread later), and the fastest was about 20 hours and that was with two people working on it, neither one having any 3D printer experience. Only one out of the six printers were completed to the PID tuning stage, but #s 2 and 3 were very close.

    There's a few bumps in the 3rd edition manual that I need to get ironed out. I'm NOT a fan of the "calibrated eyeball" calibration method, but that's what dey want, so dat's what dey get. :D (I'm going to move the old calibration method to an appendix I think.)

    How many of you caught the incorrect # of 1.75" screws (6) for installing the idler pulleys on the top of the machine? Having school teachers reading the manual was kind of brutal in spots, but all great feedback. One guy even caught the "Socket Heat Cap Screw" error that NOBODY else spotted. :)

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby nrbelk » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:07 pm

    I finished my Rostock Max V2 on Wednesday. First, the guide I used was great, nice job! It was really well documented and well done with excellent pictures.

    Here are the few things I ran into. But I haven't gone back to double-check to see if its there in the manual or not and I just missed it.

    First, I think in section six, it should mention which tower is which again when you are installing them. On page 87 (or near it) it shows really well which axis we are working with on the baseplate, but to find which T-Slot bar was the one for the X axis, I had to scroll up and re-read the document again (which was probably better for me anyways haha). By mentioning again which cables are in which aluminum bar, it would fix this.

    The last (and most frustrating) issue I had was that the hot end wires weren't long enough at the base plate to bring out front. I had to go back and scrounge up some wire to solder to the hot end wires to make them long enough.

    But even with those problems, I found the guide to be really well done and really easy to understand.

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby add1ct3dd » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:24 am

    Just came back to redo my horizontal radius as I noticed printing wide prints it was arching and the center was too high, and the outsides too low.

    I was at 129.5 for my Horizontal Radius, and have gone up to 150 with no change to the nozzle touching the paper when I do "Bed Center", does anyone know if there's a firmware bug of some sort? It's saving as if I disconnect from the printer and reconnect, and then load the eeprom settings it's still there :S

    X, Y and Z are calibrated via the Paper trick, just cant seem to get the Horizontal Radius set initially so I can fine tune even further!?

    Edit, I'll take this to my own thread, so if you have a reply for me, please put it there :)

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby dajay23D » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:34 pm

    IMO, the Rostock V2 manual is very good and thorough. Taking notes and improving from feedback from the community is just awesome! :) I wrote work instructions in the aerospace industry for 5 years. The more experienced will ask for less and the less experienced will ask for more.

    The things I missed or coulda been smoother;
    - I didn't see any verbage of the fan wires also go into the mesh sleeve, so I missed that
    - I wish I had come across this video as I was putting in my filament: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GyiivRWzHc
    - I didn't bend the resistor wires UP on the hot end. I wish I had done that before I soldered. I realized I had to bend it up during my hot end install and it didn't look that pretty, but it's working.
    - I oriented the top board wrong. I realized it as I was zip tying the end stop wires. I had to look and zoom at the pictures a few times. Wrong orientation fits!
    - When you're hammering those spiked nuts into the board, it causes hair line cracks in the wood or at least on the resin surface of the melamine. Have to be very careful.
    - Not sure if this really matters, but the 1st page picture, the filament holder and extruder looks like it's on the left. While after assy, it's on the right more. Maybe just diff angle..

    Other than those minor things, everything is fine and dandy. I'm very glad I got this. Makes me learn a ton! Love it!

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby cookiemonster » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:15 am

    Hay guys,
    Just a quick question regarding page 203 and checpoint video #20.
    Even though I have the fan case oriented correctly, the fan blades seem to be reversed.
    Does this mean I need to flip the wires?
    Thanks!

    Screenshot (30).png
    screenshot from checkpoint video #20


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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby JFettig » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:01 pm

    cookiemonster wrote:Hay guys,
    Just a quick question regarding page 203 and checpoint video #20.
    Even though I have the fan case oriented correctly, the fan blades seem to be reversed.
    Does this mean I need to flip the wires?
    Thanks!

    Screenshot (30).png


    IMG_20151007_092702.jpg


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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby geneb » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:12 pm

    JFettig, he's referring to the blade pitch of the fan. On his fan, the blade pitch is reversed from what mine was - which makes me think that the fan may run in the opposite direction.

    I'd contact tech support and ask.

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby dave21458 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:11 pm

    This is my first experience with 3d printers. The manual was great, sometimes overkill, but better too much than not enough. It took me about 25 hours just because I caught my self double checking everything. It was actually fun, my 9 year grandson enjoyed helping to.
    One of things I would change, is mounting the end stop switches after installing the top assembly. This makes hooking up the wires to the end stop switches easier, also if they are installed as the manual recommends, then when tapping the holes in the spreader block puts a lot of pressure on the end stop switches.
    Also don't bother installing the upper idler bearing until you install the belts. You'll end taking them back off again to do the top end wiring.

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby e_hutch » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:52 pm

    I'm about halfway through the build and it is going great, the instructions are refreshingly intuitive. The only feedback I have so far is on page 55 that since "The R4 bearing is a very tight fit in the sleeve." you "recommend that you use the back end of a small screwdriver or other suitably sized tool to press the bearing into place." I found that the back end of a small screwdriver damaged the bearing. I would recommend using a rubber mallet to get the bearings in flush and using one of the other bearings to apply even pressure to the outer ring and again using a mallet to push it in the remaining distance. This worked very well for me once I was able to remove the bearing that I damaged with the screwdriver. I suppose the problem to solve will be the last bearing! I now have to try to find another R4 bearing to replace the one that is damaged!

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby geneb » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:52 am

    I probably should have written "P1" and not "small" when I was referring to the screwdriver. I'm surprised you were able to apply enough force to damage the bearing before it seated in the cover.

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby e_hutch » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:48 am

    I was too. Mine were super tight so I had to apply more than just manual pressure, so I had a perfect storm where my (not so) suitably sized tool pressed in on the weakest point in the bearing and caused it to no longer turn the way it should. You can barely tell there is an indentation in the metal. Seemecnc has already shipped out a replacement part! Again, great experience so far, my last printer manual was all in Spanish :). My problem was user error for the most part. I didn't even think about putting the pressure where the bearing can take a side load safely.

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby geneb » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:07 am

    I tweaked the text a bit to help avoid that one. :)

    FYI, nice Bone. :)

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby mhackney » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:07 pm

    Gene, page 1213 is blank in the latest revision. Was this intentional or is there critical instructions missing?

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby geneb » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:53 pm

    There's only 147 pages, so page 1213 is highly unlikely. :)

    What version # & page # are you looking at?

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby mhackney » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:16 pm

    Version 18.3 dated April 1st, 2019 for the Rostock V6.

    Damn, I just figured it out, damned time travel messed up the PDF.

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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby Eaglezsoar » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:26 pm

    mhackney wrote:Version 18.3 dated April 1st, 2019 for the Rostock V6.

    Damn, I just figured it out, damned time travel messed up the PDF.


    Time Travel? :lol:
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    Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

    Postby mhackney » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:28 pm

    Something I've been working on in my spare time. Almost got it down.

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