Assembly manual discussion thread!

Discussions related to the Rostock MAX v2
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MKGrinch
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby MKGrinch » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:14 pm

nitewatchman wrote:The best approach to maintain alignments would be to notch the bulkhead to provide clearance for the Tee-Nut.

Thanks nitewatchman!!!! I will do that..
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby Hans » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:17 am

I notched mine, no issues at all after I did that. Didn't need a big notch either.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby imagebuff » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:12 pm

Luckily I caught this right after building the base. Notched it, no problem. Also had to notch a spot for the Z stepper motor upon installing the astrosyn dampers to keep the motor casing from touching part of the frame just outside the PS.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby RegB » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:03 pm

A couple of us, maybe more, have had trouble with the SIZE of the first print.
I propose a change.
The manual now points to the fan shroud .stl file and instructs the builder to slice it, using ABS._slic3r and print it as a first (test) print.
Instead I think it should point to the "Known Good" G-code that was produced, as the first line says
; generated by Slic3r 0.9.10b on 2013-09-25 at 14:50:08
It is here;
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/seeme ... DE/FAN.GCO
probably other places too.
Simple instructions; Copy/paste this into the G-code editor and click on "Start Print".

This would remove all the slic3r variables from the first functional test of the FFF's ability to actually fabricate something.
There is a LOT to digest on a first build and many/most of us haven't had a lot of previous exposure to G-code, so debugging slic3r output is not our forte (-:
Not so much debugging as understanding why things are happening the way they are.

By all means have the builder LATER generate another file with slic3r, with whatever future rev is bundled with Repetier and use that in an A/B test for differences. Use this for setting up/tuning slic3r.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby RegB » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:38 am

imagebuff wrote:Luckily I caught this right after building the base. Notched it, no problem. Also had to notch a spot for the Z stepper motor upon installing the astrosyn dampers to keep the motor casing from touching part of the frame just outside the PS.


I ground the edge off the Tee nut, I didn't want to pull the plate up and risk chipping the melamine.

It seems you have a "ONCE" fitting opportunity with melamine parts into melamine parts.
OK going in, but the side of the part that the other part is inserted from tends to peel out when the inserted part is removed )-;

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby geneb » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:41 am

The ABS._slic3r slicing profile is the one that was originally used to slice the fan shroud file. Guanu or John created that profile and the sliced output, so there's no benefit (realistically) to having them download the gcode file.

Also, the gcode file can be loaded directly into Repetier (and I think MC) without having to mess with copy/paste.

----

There were only about 10 kits that went out the door that are missing the t-nut notch in the vertical supports - Steve rotated the holes 30 degrees and accidentally missed issue that would arise by moving the t-nut positions.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby RegB » Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:30 pm

Thanks Gene,

I am TRYING to isolate the differences;
To MY newbie eyes "the code is different", but of course I don't know if it is different where it matters.

I was going to give it another try, back to back prints of the downloaded G_Code file against freshly generated code via slic3r 1.1.6 on Repetier_Host 1.0 RC2 .
I know, these are quite a bit later than what the G_Code file was generated on.
Then perhaps back-grade one or both until things work the "same".

I should have noticed this before, the V2 of the shroud .stl file that I have been using has only been up for a month or so, vs the 9 months of the original. They are about 10K different in size.

I can't get the original shroud's .stl file.

It is listed, but when I click on download the browser waits, waits, waits, eventually times out.
http://repables.com/items/download/338/1454/

Unless/until I can get the same .stl file that the G_Code file was generated from I can't determine if I have a slic3r problem, a Repetier_Host problem, or... or any number of other things (-:

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby BONE » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:33 pm

Which direction is the "correct" direction for air flow? There is an arrow on the fan for the airflow direction, but is the fan to push or pull air through the hole?
Fan direction.png
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby guanu » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:16 am

the photos are the correct way.... the fan blows air onto the rambo... label on the fan will face the rambo

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby BONE » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:35 am

Sorry, let me rephrase. I'm installing an upgraded fan that is quieter and less likely to fail (based upon general customer feedback on the forums), which direction is the correct airflow through the panel?
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby geneb » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:17 am

Point the back of the fan at the RAMBo.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby BONE » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:43 am

geneb wrote:Point the back of the fan at the RAMBo.

g.


Is that the arrow pointing towards the hole, to push air through the hole? Not really sure what side is the back of the fan.
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby guanu » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:59 am

Like I said..

guanu wrote:the photos are the correct way.... the fan blows air onto the rambo... label on the fan will face the rambo

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby BONE » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:17 am

Sorry guanu, had my head wrapped around the direction of the arrow and I overlooked the way you referenced it. I guess I honed in on the label reference since I'm using a fan that did not come with the kit.
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby BONE » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:57 pm

What length screw is to be used when assembling the hot end?

page 161
8-25-2014 9-52-04 PM.png

page 162
8-25-2014 9-52-25 PM.png
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby Kevinvandeusen » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:49 pm

Use whichever they gave you. You do not want it protruding too far out.
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby Brian » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:20 am

BONE wrote:What length screw is to be used when assembling the hot end?

page 161
8-25-2014 9-52-04 PM.png

page 162
8-25-2014 9-52-25 PM.png



By the time you get to that step, there's probably only one group of screws left in your unused parts that would possibly fit in this location. There were many places in the build where you could deduce the correct screws without measuring because the manual called out some number of screws for a particular step and there were only one screw that was supplied which would fit that place.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby geneb » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:55 am

Good catch, Brian! I'll get that fixed as soon as I can.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby BONE » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:16 am

Brian wrote:
BONE wrote:What length screw is to be used when assembling the hot end?

page 161
8-25-2014 9-52-04 PM.png

page 162
8-25-2014 9-52-25 PM.png



By the time you get to that step, there's probably only one group of screws left in your unused parts that would possibly fit in this location. There were many places in the build where you could deduce the correct screws without measuring because the manual called out some number of screws for a particular step and there were only one screw that was supplied which would fit that place.


My kit came with not enough hardware in those sizes, so SeeMeCNC sent me a bag of each. That's why I was asking and brought this discrepancy in the manual to this thread.
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby BONE » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:18 pm

I downloaded Repetier and it does not look like the control panel in the manual. My main issue trying to find here to insert the G-code for auto tuning codes. I don't how to generate the Kp, Ki, and Kp's for controlling the ramp up and overshoot numbers for the hot end and hot bed controls. Can some one help with that? I've taken everything up to the temps in the manual, but I don't know how to tune the temps with the missing G-code box.
8-27-2014 10-03-21 PM.png
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby nitewatchman » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:23 pm

Hey no problem!

Go up to the tool bar and toggle the EASY button from GREEN to RED. I think that the fields you are looking for will then appear under the MANUAL CONTROL tab.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby BONE » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:00 am

nitewatchman wrote:Hey no problem!

Go up to the tool bar and toggle the EASY button from GREEN to RED. I think that the fields you are looking for will then appear under the MANUAL CONTROL tab.

nitewatchman


Yep that made the G-code appear. I'll run it tomorrow when I get home, getting alittle late and I need my beauty sleep. Some might refer to as Prime Madonna sleep around here. :P
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby Ascensi » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:45 pm

Had a few issues so far that slowed me down quite a bit.

1. The manual has so much to read through and much filtering through revisions. I believe It would be best if the manual was split into each revision. - also the current manual does not provide a revision for Rev7 that I bought.
My electrical cables and even base design is different than the photos and it took a bit of time to realize that my printer was a new revision.

2. Not being too familiar with identifying wire sizes selecting to cut (not for a long time) one of the two pictures that show conductor cables were the same color, but without thinking things through further I referenced the pictures by size and color. *Notes in the manual like: 18ga wire is the largest in diameter, followed by the 22ga wire and the 26ga wire is the thinnest." -should be added in the manual **at the beginning before cutting** not closer to the end .. and also remind people to look at the wire itself to reference the correct gauge when ever relevant if the gauge is written on the wire.

3. There is a list/statement on the front page of Rostock Max V2 of tools and additional supplies that is apparently required to complete a build but the manual references more things like kapton tape, Blue Threadlock etc. I actually got confused in the beginning thinking that the listing of Permatex twice in the document was referencing an older product for the Hotend not realizing that the threadlocking supply was for the motors and the ultra copper gasket maker was for the hotend because the webpage only listed "High Temp RTV silicone for retaining heating resistors/thermistor in hot-end, or High Temp expoxy".

My Rev7 came with two leds and two resistors.. but my hotbed only allows for 1 led and 1 resistor.. there is no instructions for these "extras"? are they now extras?

4. Both adhesive prep for the hotend and the hotbed should be together at the beginning. Also a quick note where these supplies like "Permatex" could be found like the automotive area of a hardware store would be very helpful.. took a bit of time searching online trying to find what stores might carry it.

5. On the product page it states to either crimp or solder to be able to complete the build but soldering is essential for the hotbed.. can't crimp anything there.

6. If I may suggest to keep information condensed on page 88 I would write this if correct:

Inside the center of the Aluminium extrusion designated for the for the z axis feed the18ga hot end wires

Inside the center of the Aluminium extrusion designated for the x axis feed the end-stop wires into the center

Inside the center of the Aluminium extrusion designated for the y axis tower feed the 22ga wires for the extruder as well as two pair of 26ga wires for the
PEEK fan and the layer fan


(Following the current instruction in that area lead me to believe there would be a 4th Aluminium extrusion although there isn't one.) Also please keep either one* name reference like "Aluminium extrusions" or "Aluminium Towers/Posts" - not multiple. - keep it short and simple.

7. When mounting the Aluminium extrusions it would be good to mention an ideal length of the cable coming out of the bottom because we don't know in advance where the Rambo card will be placed and if there will be other obstacles in the way that may require us to have more cable length.

8. Page 121 - please don't write in the manual what you messed up on the past (every future written documentation should be about the new improved design and method of installation - a focus on quick and easy rather than bloating it with the past otherwise it just makes it harder to follow) You could make a change history log at the end of the manual if you feel that might help veterans and first timers.

9. Big error: please correct me if I'm wrong but I've followed the obscure steps of assembling the extruder wires, page 149 it's written to only use the hotend wires that are fed through the Aluminium extrusion "Z" and in the wiring instructions for the Aluminium extrusions z is only for the hotend wires (page 88) and y contains both the 22ga and 26ga wires. Page 153 (hotend wiring completed) shows the red wires have been assembled in the mesh loom although this wasn't directed to feed them into the mesh loom along with the hotend wires.. so I ended up shrink wrapping BEFORE realizing this issue.. I was thinking maybe the 26ga wires had it's own sleave/mesh loom covering.

10. Although on page 150 it's part of the hotend assembly, there is no parts listing for "barrel crimps" in the manual.. so what's the alternative soldering??

11. My Rambo fan produced an oscillating noise and I found the only thing that was able to stop it was to have a "slight" obstruction screwed onto the fan about thumb tip size or guitar pick. I Adjusted it with the power on to hear the fan's sound change. This altered the sound to be steady.

12. I am not impressed by the fact that two fans were sent to me but not the adaptors to mount them! I understand that in the manual your instructing us to print the fans but if this were a complete kit I would suggest to either include the fans or a generous supply of the material to print them!

13. Getting into the part about inserting the 2 meter filament, I realize the filament feed hole has been changed to a new area Page144 (the hole is now one the other side so the stepper motor now has to be changed and added to the back)


14. My hotend melted the PEEK HOT END INSULATOR .. so disappointed.. the thermistor is in place, extruder temp set to 140 for using Taulman's Bridge Filament. On the SeemeCNC product Webpage it states I can print using Taulman Nylon which his Nylons are stated to have the printing temperatures of approximately ]240-245 C http://www.taulman3d.com/nylon-618-spec.html I Kept my Extruder at 240 and as I fed the filament in, it pushed out the PEEK HOT END INSULATOR along with melted filament! What now??

I will update this list if I can to show my experience so far and give others a heads up. I hope the manual can be updated soon.
Last edited by Ascensi on Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:25 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby BONE » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:29 am

Ascensi wrote:Had a few issues so far that slowed me down quite a bit.

1. The manual has so much to read through and much filtering through revisions. I believe It would be best if the manual was split into each revision. - also the current manual does not provide a revision for Rev7 that I bought.
My electrical cables and even base design is different than the photos and it took a bit of time to realize that my printer was a new revision.

2. Not being too familiar with identifying wire sizes selecting to cut (not for a long time) one of the two pictures that show conductor cables were the same color, but without thinking things through further I referenced the pictures by size and color. *Notes in the manual like: 18ga wire is the largest in diameter, followed by the 22ga wire and the 26ga wire is the thinnest." -should be added in the manual **at the beginning before cutting** not closer to the end .. and also remind people to look at the wire itself to reference the correct gauge when ever relevant if the gauge is written on the wire.

3. There is a list/statement on the front page of Rostock Max V2 of tools and additional supplies that is apparently required to complete a build but the manual references more things like kapton tape, Blue Threadlock etc. I actually got confused in the beginning thinking that the listing of Permatex twice in the document was referencing an older product for the Hotend not realizing that the threadlocking supply was for the motors and the ultra copper gasket maker was for the hotend because the webpage only listed "High Temp RTV silicone for retaining heating resistors/thermistor in hot-end, or High Temp expoxy".

My Rev7 came with two leds and two resistors.. but my hotbed only allows for 1 led and 1 resistor.. there is no instructions for these "extras"? are they now extras?

4. Both adhesive prep for the hotend and the hotbed should be together at the beginning. Also a quick note where these supplies like "Permatex" could be found like the automotive area of a hardware store would be very helpful.. took a bit of time searching online trying to find what stores might carry it.

5. On the product page it states to either crimp or solder to be able to complete the build but soldering is essential for the hotbed.. can't crimp anything there.

6. If I may suggest to keep information condensed on page 88 I would write this if correct:

Inside the center of the Aluminium extrusion designated for the for the z axis feed the18ga hot end wires

Inside the center of the Aluminium extrusion designated for the x axis feed the end-stop wires into the center

Inside the center of the Aluminium extrusion designated for the y axis tower feed the 22ga wires for the extruder as well as two pair of 26ga wires for the
PEEK fan and the layer fan


(Following the current instruction in that area lead me to believe there would be a 4th Aluminium extrusion although there isn't one.)

I will update this list if I can to show my experience so far and give others a heads up. I hope the manual can be updated soon.


Well said!
9df.gif
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Re: Assembly manual discussion thread!

Postby crocky » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:37 pm

Having just built and successfully tested a Rostock Max V2 from a wheelchair I have got say one thing about the Manual "It is very complete" thank you geneb. Sure there are faults with some pics, a little effort can generally overcome those problems and if you can't you have a wonderful community here for support!

The thing is evolving all the time and sometimes the paperwork is little behind, just write a question here and there will be an answer given pretty quickly.

The only thing I will do differently with the base is keep the two trim pieces off until my new fan (PC type) arrives and is fitted to ensure there is enough airflow for the power supply. The newer baseboards have addressed the problem nicely....

Thanks!!!
Bob
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