Best dual extrusion set up for soluble support?

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jram
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Best dual extrusion set up for soluble support?

Postby jram » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:31 pm

Hi All,
I have a Max v2 with new carriages, E3D v6, and an aluminum mount. I've had the machine for about 2 years and 3 months and it still prints beautifully!I've resisted upgrading to the the HE280 since I don't have problems with leveling. However, I am really in need of dual extrusion to print soluble support as I often need to send the complex models to our Stratasys Uprint (which I don't like to do because of the cost).

Can someone recommend a dual extrusion configuration that would go along with my current set up? I would like to keep the Rambo if possible... but would consider changing that if I knew I could get a reliable dual set up for soluble supports.
Machines- Rostock Max v2 with E3D v6, Corsair 750 power supply, PEI bed,injection molded carriages and new arms. Aluminum mount. X carve with x controller. Stratasys Uprint SE

gchristopher
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Re: Best dual extrusion set up for soluble support?

Postby gchristopher » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:08 pm

I was able to print HIPS with ABS using two E3D V6's undermounted side by side. An E3D chimera would have been nicer. Since both filaments have a similar temperature range, a cyclops would have been an option. I haven't tried many multifilament combinations, but I've read mutual adhesion is an issue.

Getting the Repetier firmware to work for two extruders wasn't too bad with some forum searches, but be prepared for lots of experimentation with the slicing softwares. Getting the right production of a purge tower/ooze wall and retractions to reduce print artifacts will take work.

For running Chimera or 2 E3Ds:

Pros:
- separate temperature control
- no filament change per hot end

Cons:
- needs to be perfectly level so neither head hits the print (one-time cost)
- ooze from the inactive tool is a constant problem to mitigate

A Cyclops wouldn't need careful leveling of the heads, but you'd need filament with about the same temperature, and I imagine there'd be some tuning to depressurize one filament inlet and start running the other filament. The big appeal of the cyclops would be that you wouldn't have the second head oozing, so your only new/special source of stringing will be when it travels between the purge tower and printing a layer.

People are starting to get experimental results with the SeeMeCNC Y-adapter, which is the super low-budget option.


One trick I came up with was, once I'd run wiring for two extruders up to the top, I left the firmware set up for two extuders. I grabbed an extra hot end thermistor, attached it by itself to a connector, and plugged that dummy into the wire harness for the second extruder, when I don't want to have both physically plugged in. Then the firmware still sees both temperature readings and doesn't complain that the second extruder isn't actually present. That means not having to re-flash the firmware if I change hardware configuration back and forth, or figure out how to modify repetier to not complain if the second thermistor is missing. All the slicers are fine thinking that the printer has two extruders and only using extruder 1.


If I was doing HIPS much more, I'd put serious effort into minimizing the amount of dissolvable filament used, to minimize both cost (I can't find cheap limonene), and time taken to dissolve the supports. Something like creating floating support structures as part of the model, where most of the support is printed as ABS, leaving a thin shell of HIPS to print between the floating support and the actual model. All the support generation algorithms I've ever seen a slicer use give somewhere between bad and horrible results.

IMBoring25
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Re: Best dual extrusion set up for soluble support?

Postby IMBoring25 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:06 am

I just didn't want to deal with the limonene. If PETG has adequate properties for your application my experience has been that it sticks to PVA, which is water-soluble. I also picked up some E3D Scaffold a while back to fill out an order so the shipping didn't sting so much and it supposedly works with most of the common and semi-common materials except ABS, but mine hasn't been out of the box yet.

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jram
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Re: Best dual extrusion set up for soluble support?

Postby jram » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:45 am

Hi All,
I posted this a while ago and haven't had the chance to follow up. I have read some about the Prometheus upgrade as I have an E3D v6. Does anyone know of any better options that have come out since this post? I actually have the time to upgrade now. I am printing complex student prints on my Max v2 and it handles most models I throw at it.. But I still need to send a few to the Stratasys Uprint Plus SE and I feel that the only thing it has that my MAX v2 doesn't is soluble support. My Max V2 still prints like a dream at this point, I just need soluble support.
I have been drooling over the Prusa MK3 lately, not sure if I'll make the order.

Any suggestions?
Machines- Rostock Max v2 with E3D v6, Corsair 750 power supply, PEI bed,injection molded carriages and new arms. Aluminum mount. X carve with x controller. Stratasys Uprint SE


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