Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

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Northspire
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Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Northspire » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:14 pm

Hello all,
I am building a custom rostock and I have a few questions.
First off these are the mods I am going to do initially.

24V power supply
LED light ring
Duet control board with Paneldue
Polycarbonate enclosure

Mods I am considering for later
Tricklaser 300mm CF Arms
Tricklaser Trucks
Tricklaser metal max effector
Kraken hotend

O.K. my first question is where can I source the standoff for the r4 idler bearings? Are they the same as the 608zz standoffs?
Second I have a mean well sp 750 24 power supply,what is the best way to wire it up to run the entire printer or should I not do that?
Also the power supply has two large connections on the back what is their purpose?
Third what dual extruder hotend would you recommend?
Finally(sorry for all the questions but I want the best printer I can build) The onyx bed rev 3 24v I received does not have the connections on the back marked does it hookup the same as the one in the current assembly manual?

Thanks Alot
Machines:
Rostock V2 Meanwell SP 750-24 Power Supply,710n Nano W/l Router,E3D Chimera Hot-End,713 Maker Effector and Hot-End Mount,Duet 0.8.5,Bondtech QR Extruder,PanelDue W/ 7 Inch T/S,Mini IR Height Sensor,24V Heated Bed With SSR,46 Quart Dry Box.

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Xenocrates
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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Xenocrates » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:19 am

The R4 idler bearing standoffs are different from the 608 ones. Considering their track record, I would Email SeemeCNC about it, and they will likely be for sale online in a few days.

The meanwell SP750 should have sufficient power to drive things, just barely. I would consider using a step-down converter to drive the duet board and hotend. You definitely need an SSR for the bed (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=288) It may be tight on power if you use 24V to drive everything. If you do go for that, you need to make sure your heater cartridges can handle 24V (Buy the ones specced for it, not just use 24V in 12V cartridges, you will quadruple the power through them, which is bad)


I believe those large connections are the DC out (30A does need a beefy connector). There is more information here: http://www.meanwell.com/mw_search/SP-750/SP-750-spec.pdf

I recommend the Cyclops and Chimera from E3D, as the cyclops is one of the few 2 in one out hotends, and the Chimera is fully compatible with the rest of the E3D ecosystem.

It's DC. Direction is mostly not important (Except with capacitors and diodes.). It should hook up the same way as the current one. If the LED works, then the circuit is fine the way you have it hooked up. (It's a diode)

It looks like it will be a spiffy printer to be sure. Have you picked which of the enclosure designs you're going for yet? And if so, what method are you using to heat it?
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

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Northspire
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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Northspire » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:45 pm

Thanks for the info.Xenocrates.

I'm going to run the printer on 24v as all my hardware is 24v,if I have any problems I can always add another power supply and split the wiring between them.

As far as the enclosure I haven't decided yet,what would you recommend?
I have that exact SSR so I am set on that front.

I went with the stock arms and cheapskates for now as money is a bit tight but I will upgrade to the tricklaser ones as soon as i get the money and a little experience with the printer.

Are there any other mods you or anyone else would recomend ?

What are the community's thoughts on the kraken is it worth using or is it more trouble than its worth?

Thanks A lot
Machines:
Rostock V2 Meanwell SP 750-24 Power Supply,710n Nano W/l Router,E3D Chimera Hot-End,713 Maker Effector and Hot-End Mount,Duet 0.8.5,Bondtech QR Extruder,PanelDue W/ 7 Inch T/S,Mini IR Height Sensor,24V Heated Bed With SSR,46 Quart Dry Box.

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bubbasnow
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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by bubbasnow » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:17 am

the kraken..... more trouble then its worth.. go with a cyclops or diamond if you want to multi extrude on a delta.

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Northspire » Wed May 04, 2016 11:18 pm

Yeah I figured the kraken would be a lot of trouble. I'll probably go with a Chimera . How is the Diamond? Any good?

Sorry for the late reply I have been slammed at work.

How about the multi fan cooling mods are they worth it,or just overkill?

For heating the enclosure I am thinking about something like this.
http://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Electric-C ... o_pC_S_ttl

Controlled by this or maybe arduino or raspberry.
http://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-All-Purpo ... 12&sr=8-12
Machines:
Rostock V2 Meanwell SP 750-24 Power Supply,710n Nano W/l Router,E3D Chimera Hot-End,713 Maker Effector and Hot-End Mount,Duet 0.8.5,Bondtech QR Extruder,PanelDue W/ 7 Inch T/S,Mini IR Height Sensor,24V Heated Bed With SSR,46 Quart Dry Box.

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Xenocrates
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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Xenocrates » Wed May 04, 2016 11:47 pm

The Cyclops is likely better for most cases than the Chimera (Not multi-material much, but multi-color or close materials), as it won't ooze or drag on the print with the nozzle not in use. The diamond has the same advantage the Cyclops does, but cannot be switched to multi-nozzle (The Tri-hotend available through matter-hackers is a multi-nozzle 3 way hotend), and is well liked on these forums (There are lots of nice build logs. Give them a look some time)

I would buy the legends pack from E3D, and sets of nozzles (Likely you'll want two fun packs, so each of the Chimera's blocks can be any size you want). I would also consider buying two Volcano block+nozzle sets (I think it's called Eruption. Not sure), for fast prints, and possibly some undrilled Cyclops nozzles so you can drill your own (They only come in one size from the factory (I am a machinist, and so am fairly comfortable working with metal, you may be less so))

Depending on what you mean by multi-fan cooling, the advice is different. If you mean the triple fan setup for layer fans, definitely. That gives more symmetrical cooling, and won't cause things to potentially lean over. I also have used an additional cooling fan type thing, the Berd-Air, which can help a lot. If you mean cooling for the base, it shouldn't matter much (if you have the PSU which is not ATX)

For the heating, that heater is rather anemic. Three or so (Modify your chamber such that they can go in the middle of the side panels perhaps, not behind the towers though, as that might harm the belts/cheapskates) towards the bottom would work fairly well. Less wattage than that may not warm it enough. You will also need a 24V power supply for it that's rather hefty. I might look for a KW one, so that you can run those, the bed, and the rest of the printer on it. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/SE-1000-24/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs2%252bVrH5rwl1qKjU9DYITogMxrP8JeJNa0%3d for example. The inkbird relay is designed to switch AC, so I am not sure that it would handle 24VDC well, especially not at that amperage (12.5 for three versus a 10A rating). If it uses a mechanical relay, it might be fine, but an SSR would stick on, and if it could do DC, they would likely note it. I would buy a pair of relays like this http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=288, one for the bed, and one for the heaters, then use the pi or whatever to control that (Or make the printer think it's another hotend, and tell it to get it to temperature before printing. It should work)
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by 3D-Print » Thu May 05, 2016 7:39 am

I have used the Diamond for the past months and have really liked the prints. Agree it is nice in that there is no dragging or catching of a second nozzle on the print. I really like the ability to change color extrusion on the fly (I use the duel board and deux4 expansion board).

Two major complaints from the diamond:

First: Oozing and stringing which with the right retractions (7.5 mm) is almost resolved.

Second: If you have to change the Diamond head (as I recently did due to to a jam/plugged head) it is a complete tear down of the print head and rebuild vs changing the tip (3hours).
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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by 3D-Print » Thu May 05, 2016 7:48 am

Here is my build thread and a link to where I added the Diamond FYI (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=7303&start=150#p89219)

As others have said, the Rostock is an awesome printer and I love the ability to modify it to fit you needs/wants.........
My 3D-Printing learning curve is asymptotic to a Delta's X, Y and Z-axes

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by 3D-Print » Thu May 05, 2016 7:53 am

As well, a thread I have posted to using the Diamond and multicolor printing (viewtopic.php?f=111&t=10179).

While my attempts are not perfect for mixing of color, it is a start and I am still learning!!!
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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Northspire » Sat May 07, 2016 12:48 pm

Yes Xeno, The part cooling multi fan mod. It looked like a good upgrade but I thought it might be too much and cool too good.
The Diamond certainly looks interesting. More food for thought.
Thanks Xeno for the advice on the standoffs. I emailed seemecnc and they hooked me up,FANTASTIC customer service.
On a side note work finally calmed down enough so I could start the build. I'll start a build thread later.
I am really looking forward to the possibilities that this printer represents.
Machines:
Rostock V2 Meanwell SP 750-24 Power Supply,710n Nano W/l Router,E3D Chimera Hot-End,713 Maker Effector and Hot-End Mount,Duet 0.8.5,Bondtech QR Extruder,PanelDue W/ 7 Inch T/S,Mini IR Height Sensor,24V Heated Bed With SSR,46 Quart Dry Box.

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Northspire » Sun May 15, 2016 12:43 am

Anybody have recommendations for slicer software?
Machines:
Rostock V2 Meanwell SP 750-24 Power Supply,710n Nano W/l Router,E3D Chimera Hot-End,713 Maker Effector and Hot-End Mount,Duet 0.8.5,Bondtech QR Extruder,PanelDue W/ 7 Inch T/S,Mini IR Height Sensor,24V Heated Bed With SSR,46 Quart Dry Box.

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Xenocrates
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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Xenocrates » Sun May 15, 2016 9:55 am

I hear many good things about KISSlicer , other than some UI complaints, and it's free to do everything but multi-extrusion. Unfortunately, the dev is not always active, so if there are issues with it and a given setup, they may last for some time.

Mattercontrol is pretty good, as it combines a host and several slicers. Unfortunately, the built in Slic3r install is broken (Due to a change in bed definitions). The other two slicers still work (Cura and matterslice). It's fairly easy to use too. Not the best at any given thing, but if one slicer doesn't cut it, you can switch with only a few clicks.

Simplify3D is often mentioned. I wouldn't buy it personally. The G-code it emits is often ugly and un-optimized, with many duplicate points and 3-7 micron moves. This causes problems for Smoothieboards, as it fills the path planner with garbage. It also bloats file size, and makes it harder to manually edit. It's also rather expensive, and the developers as yet have refused to confirm or deny if they think they own every bit of G-code it emits, which points towards them thinking so, and refusing to say so as it's terrible for their market position if it gets out.

My experience points towards no one slicer being a silver bullet, so I would try a couple to see which ones suit your applications best (Another reason I am hesitant to give S3D 100$ is they have no trial to see how well it does for your parts)
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

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Nylocke
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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Nylocke » Sun May 15, 2016 12:20 pm

I used to use straight up Cura. Its a pretty good slicer. KISS is significantly better in most ways so I use it now, but if something ever happens to KISS and nothing rises up to meet the market I'm going back to Cura. The infil pattern on lower infil% is weird, it will do one layer only one direction and the next layer only the other direction (the default square shape, it will alternate which lines it does which layer, so sometimes it will stretch plastic over a small void and it will break, making the void larger and causing a larger problem that sometimes bunches up and catches on the nozzle).

Overall I liked the pathing better than Slic3r, and the multi extrusion support was pretty decent (It can do a prime tower AND wipe shield on the same print). It also sliced much faster and generally was better with small mesh errors. IMO its the best free slicing engine all around, and the dev doesn't go AWOL.

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by geneb » Sun May 15, 2016 3:58 pm

The only issue I have with Kisslicer is that there's no way to set a first layer height and that causes problems when using auto-cal on the Duet. (first layer is too thin and causes the extruder to skip)

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Nylocke » Sun May 15, 2016 4:49 pm

You can thicken the first layer with this. Its layer hight + that value = first layer height

Screen Shot 2016-05-15 at 3.48.17 PM.png


Not really sure what your problem is, sounds like you have the Z probe offset in firmware off a little?

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by geneb » Sun May 15, 2016 8:09 pm

With the Duet auto-cal, Z0 IS with the nozzle touching the glass. Thanks for the tip with Kisslicer!

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Northspire » Sun May 15, 2016 11:44 pm

Thank you all for the advice. It seems the general consensus is KISSlicer. Is it worth going pro,other than supporting the dev? Also would you use the web interface for the Duet or something else? Thanks again and happy printing!!!
Machines:
Rostock V2 Meanwell SP 750-24 Power Supply,710n Nano W/l Router,E3D Chimera Hot-End,713 Maker Effector and Hot-End Mount,Duet 0.8.5,Bondtech QR Extruder,PanelDue W/ 7 Inch T/S,Mini IR Height Sensor,24V Heated Bed With SSR,46 Quart Dry Box.

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Xenocrates » Mon May 16, 2016 12:41 pm

I would use the web interface for duet, and multi-color is a good reason to go pro, since you mentioned the diamond as a possibility. Also, I'll be testing a drop in duet mount shortly with space for 2 60MM fans (We had some old AMD stock cooler fans around, and no other small matched fans). So If you'd like, I'll let you know when we get it working (It's just for the Duet, the paneldue mount is in progress)
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

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01-10011-11111100001

Northspire
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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Northspire » Tue May 17, 2016 11:23 pm

Thanks Xenocrates. I would definitely like a shout out when you get it done. Let me know when the paneldue mount is done I have one of those to. I was gonna go pro on kisslicer anyway if for nothing else to support the dev but multicolor is definitely a bonus.
Machines:
Rostock V2 Meanwell SP 750-24 Power Supply,710n Nano W/l Router,E3D Chimera Hot-End,713 Maker Effector and Hot-End Mount,Duet 0.8.5,Bondtech QR Extruder,PanelDue W/ 7 Inch T/S,Mini IR Height Sensor,24V Heated Bed With SSR,46 Quart Dry Box.

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Xenocrates » Tue May 17, 2016 11:26 pm

We designed it for lasercutting mostly. So if you have access to a laser cutter, that would be ideal. If not, we can try to turn it into an STL for you to print. It's done, and tested to work with the duet. It can sorta accommodate the screws that are usually used to connect fans, although we used zipties, like the stock mount does. let me know what format you want.
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

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01-10011-11111100001

Northspire
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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Northspire » Wed May 18, 2016 6:36 am

I need the stl. Thanks for your help.
Machines:
Rostock V2 Meanwell SP 750-24 Power Supply,710n Nano W/l Router,E3D Chimera Hot-End,713 Maker Effector and Hot-End Mount,Duet 0.8.5,Bondtech QR Extruder,PanelDue W/ 7 Inch T/S,Mini IR Height Sensor,24V Heated Bed With SSR,46 Quart Dry Box.

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by bradjshannon » Thu May 19, 2016 4:32 pm

I used a 350W 24V MeanWell PSU for everything in my custom rostock and found that the fans would noticeably slow down when the heat bed kicked in. With PWM set up, it probably wouldn't be an issue, but I ended up getting a second 350W PSU just for the heat bed (SSR-driven, like your plan).

I bet you'll be fine with 750W running everything, but you may still get a tiny bit of fan speed droop (?). Enclosure heaters would add to that possibility.

Definitely consider PWM control of your heaters, so they're always hovering between on/off states, rather than simply on and off, which caused visible banding in my prints due to thermal expansion of the bed.

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Xenocrates » Thu May 19, 2016 5:51 pm

Alright. I managed to convert the lasercut file to an STL somehow (Let's just say it involved an online converter, Tinkercad, Maya, and Mattercontrol all at the same time). I make no guarantees about it printing properly (Although my mattercontrol instance says it should), nor that it will fit when printed (It was designed for the kerf of the laser, however allowances were made for lower precision during the export process). It may be a little thin compared to stock (.7MM thinner), but that can be fixed somewhat with scaling factors.

Let me know how it prints.
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Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Northspire » Thu May 19, 2016 9:59 pm

Thanks Xenocrates. I'll let you know how it prints.
Machines:
Rostock V2 Meanwell SP 750-24 Power Supply,710n Nano W/l Router,E3D Chimera Hot-End,713 Maker Effector and Hot-End Mount,Duet 0.8.5,Bondtech QR Extruder,PanelDue W/ 7 Inch T/S,Mini IR Height Sensor,24V Heated Bed With SSR,46 Quart Dry Box.

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Re: Hello I'm building a custom rostock max v2 and I need a little help.

Post by Northspire » Wed May 25, 2016 10:22 pm

OK I.ve got most of the base assembled now I need to figure out the best way to mount the P\S as it's not going to mount where the stock one does. Would two sided tape or some of the 3m sheet I got for the pei print surface work? I can fab something up I guess but i'm anxious to get on with the build. Xenocrates I haven't had the chance to try printing the mount yet. My friends dreamer is on the fritz but he is waiting on a raise3d n2+ so hopefully it won't be too long. How's the paneldue mount coming along? I need to figure out a way to mount the duet also when I get one. I finally decided to go with the legends pack from E3d for the hot end and the bondtech qr for the extruder. Should I get the right,left,or universal? I may pick up a diamond later to experiment with I don't know.
Machines:
Rostock V2 Meanwell SP 750-24 Power Supply,710n Nano W/l Router,E3D Chimera Hot-End,713 Maker Effector and Hot-End Mount,Duet 0.8.5,Bondtech QR Extruder,PanelDue W/ 7 Inch T/S,Mini IR Height Sensor,24V Heated Bed With SSR,46 Quart Dry Box.

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