Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

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bvandiepenbos
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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:25 am

626Pilot wrote:I have a Dec '12 Max. The endstop wires are shorter than in later kits. Will I need to splice in some more wire for them if I get your kit?


If the wires reach now, I would think they would reach with the MAX METAL frame.
~*Brian V.

RostockMAX v2 (Stock)
MAX METAL "ShortyMAX"
MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by ccavanaugh » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:29 am

Significant progress this weekend.

The electronics housing as designed needs some tweaks. I need to deepen the housing about a 1/4" to clear the LCD controller.

When assembling, reclaim the 4-40 t-nuts from the v1 skates or the plate the heated bed threads into and install those into the underside of the snowflake. You can then use 1/2" 4-40 screws to secure the heated bed.

20150412_091658.jpg
Assembly


20150412_123640.jpg
Snowflake


20150412_090114.jpg
Housing

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626Pilot
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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by 626Pilot » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:58 pm

This is such an impressive project. I had been thinking about designing my own delta, but one of the things that held me back was that I wasn't sure how to make the alignment perfect. I think plenty of people who don't even have a Max will end up buying this frame and using it to build their own custom deltas.

I believe the alignment pins are an example of kinematic couplings. Am I right about that?

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by ccavanaugh » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:29 am

626Pilot wrote:This is such an impressive project. I had been thinking about designing my own delta, but one of the things that held me back was that I wasn't sure how to make the alignment perfect. I think plenty of people who don't even have a Max will end up buying this frame and using it to build their own custom deltas.

I believe the alignment pins are an example of kinematic couplings. Am I right about that?


Yes! It took only a couple of raps with the palm to seat the horizontals to the pins and the assembly squared itself. It was almost too easy!

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by ccavanaugh » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:43 am

Hit a "little" snag. Everything was moving, homing, heating, etc. Went to flash the Rambo to the latest firmware and now, no movement from any of the steppers. I can still see the switches, heat, layer fan control etc, but the steppers simply refuse to move. I reverted back to the prior firmware without any luck and tried the SeeMeCNC release and same issues. I've tried the eeprom clear tricks, checked fuses, etc.

I lost the the output for the peek fan awhile ago, so was just going to wire it to the 12 VDC side and move along. Maybe an indicator of walking wounded? This is a 1.2 board, so I'm thinking it finally gave up to ESD when I plugged it into the laptop to reprogram.

I've got an old Rambo 1.1 board with 1/8 microstepping. I'm going to put that in when I install the new housing pieces to see if that gets me up an running. I'm curious to know if anyone was using a 1.1 board and made a switch to 1/16 microstepping and noticed any print improvements. I may limp on the 1.1 board for awhile until calibration and test prints are complete and then order a smoothie board. The Azteeg X5 looks really nice for the money, but I'm concerned about the drivers and durability based on what I've been reading.

The SmoothieBoard is cheaper than the Rambo, so one way or another, I won't be purchasing another Rambo

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626Pilot
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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by 626Pilot » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:50 pm

ccavanaugh wrote:The SmoothieBoard is cheaper than the Rambo

You're damn right it is!!! It's a great value.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by forrie » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:29 pm

Perfect excuse to buy a smoothie and start playing around with auto calibration
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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by ccavanaugh » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:45 am

forrie wrote:Perfect excuse to buy a smoothie and start playing around with auto calibration


It is! :D , and the need for auto calibration should be minimal with this frame because of accuracy and rigidity.

I've been watching 626pilot's calibration threads with interest should I need to.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by forrie » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:19 am

I'm going to do it! In search for the perfect printer etc... blah blah blah...

One little problem though, I have all the parts.... except a shiney new frame...doh
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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by Renha » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:52 am

bvandiepenbos wrote:What do you guys think, should I add holes for the wiring (maybe a slot would be better) or should I leave that up to your wire routing preference.

It would be wonderful if you'll add a slot for the wiring! If you'll do it, when could we expect Frame V2? Will it have any other changes we should wait for?
3D printing is magic!

Sorry my engrish :-/ you could PM me in Russian.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:38 am

Renha wrote:
bvandiepenbos wrote:What do you guys think, should I add holes for the wiring (maybe a slot would be better) or should I leave that up to your wire routing preference.

It would be wonderful if you'll add a slot for the wiring! If you'll do it, when could we expect Frame V2? Will it have any other changes we should wait for?


I added wiring slots to this current batch of (6) frames I am nearly done machining. Frames will be done in the next day or two, then ship out Friday or Monday. I am also waiting for idlers to arrive, should be in tomorrow. (smaller diameter to match the 20 tooth motor pulley)
I increased tower length from 32" to 33" for these (6) frames to give you same Z height as OEM, it was about 18mm short of stock Z.
No other changes are planned for next runs.
Material is on the way for (6) more frames that I will start machining next.
As of right now that leaves (5) unsold.
Those should be ready in 2 weeks or so.
You can order anytime, even though web store says back ordered.
~*Brian V.

RostockMAX v2 (Stock)
MAX METAL "ShortyMAX"
MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
Rostock MAX "KITT" - Tri-Force Frame
GRABER i3 "Slim"

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by Mac The Knife » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:21 am

Enough time has gone by from when I ordered, that I am really considering buying the parts needed to build a complete printer, instead of stripping my V2 Max.
R-Max V2
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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by 626Pilot » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:22 am

Mac The Knife wrote:Enough time has gone by from when I ordered, that I am really considering buying the parts needed to build a complete printer, instead of stripping my V2 Max.

You know what they say about important machinery. Two is one, and one is none.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by ccavanaugh » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:46 am

I have the Rambo issue sorted out.

I installed my old Rambo 1.0 board, uploaded the stock SeeMeCNC firmware with micro stepping changed to 8 and.... no movement :cry:

Slept on it, and decided to install Arduino with a fresh copy of the firmware on a Win 8 machine. After jumping through hoops to get the driver installed, compiled, uploaded and success!! She's homing again. I will say there is a audible difference between 1/8 and 1/16 micro stepping.

So, me thinks my 1.2 board is just fine and between using Dropbox for my firmware and bouncing between a couple of machines and Arduino 1.05 on one box and 1.63 on another too quickly, I ended up with some stale compiled files somewhere that the IDE did not catch.

It has been awhile since I had operated my RostockMax v1, but I do believe the MAX METAL frame is quieter. With the the motors directly coupled to the frame, I'm not getting much in the way of vibration. I certainly quiets down the power supply fan because it's not in a wooden speaker box...

Should be calibrated and printing this weekend if the family allows.

  • Calibrate, print and enjoy some sucess
  • Install a new goodie that is in the mail (not a Smoothie)
  • Switch over to a Prometheus v2 hotend. I have a V1 on my Ordbot and it's an incredible hotend.
  • Take a look again at a Smoothie. Tried to order yesterday, but the GLCD is out of stock and I could not backorder. Don't want to pay shipping twice, so I will be patient...

Off to work before I break something again, and tonight's activities will be cleaning up the Dropbox mess and retiring the Arduino 1.05.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by Eaglezsoar » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:11 pm

Thanks for the updates, Brian!

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by ccavanaugh » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:14 am

A quick, but significant update.

I spent Saturday morning installing a "new goodie" and began calibrating and printing.

The "new goodie" was a set of Trick Laser carbon fiber arms Brian graciously donated for the build. My stock arms had some wear that I think rubber straps would have addressed, but his arms were the ticket. The platform is now nice and tight and it helped ensure accuracy of the build. He also included v2 of his lash straps that made assembly easy.

20150419_072750.jpg
Carbon arms and lash straps


I'm still currently setup with the old Rambo 1.0 and 1/8 microstepping. It's a bit noisy and it will be quieter once I get back to 1/16 stepping. I am using Repetier 0.92.3

Printing consisted of a simple cube to get my extruder e-steps dialed in and then a right angle calibration piece I found some time ago.
20150419_074419.jpg
Calibration object


After printing, I knocked down some corners for accurate measurement and I was very pleased with the results.

The long lengths are within .04mm and the widths are all within .02mm.
The 90 degree angle is darn near perfect. There is a barley detectable gap at the end.
This was achieved by careful calibration per the Geneb's process using a piece of paper has a height gauge.

Also, I am still using the SeeMeCNC stock hotend that has quite a few hours on it, and some very irregular PLA that is egg shaped by 1.72 / 1.79mm.

I'm in the process of printing an adapter for the Prometheus I purchased from Brian. I'm going to do a separate write up on the v1 Prometheus and lessons learned as I setup the v2 for this machine.

Also, a Smoothieboard has shipped. I went with a 5X and will be using an old Arduino to adapt to the existing ReprapDiscount LCD.

For those who are sticking with their Rambo, check out the 0.92 dev tree. It includes some new error mapping options that might allow you to adjust out the parallelism errors if you are calibrated flat to the table and are still having accuracy issues.

All-in-all, I'm extremely pleased with the combination of the Trick Laser parts and the accuracy of the build provided.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by critical_limit » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:30 am

Hi All,

have a question.
Pulleys used on that Kit are 20 teeth pulleys, right?

Is it possible to use smaller pulleys? E.G. 18, 16 or 15 teeth pulleys?
Actually I'm using 15th at 0.9 Steppers with a smoothieboard, and want to use this setup at the Metal Frame.

Anyone here who knows if there is enough space to use 15teeth pulleys?

Thanx
Dirk

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by ccavanaugh » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:07 am

critical_limit wrote:Hi All,

have a question.
Pulleys used on that Kit are 20 teeth pulleys, right?

Is it possible to use smaller pulleys? E.G. 18, 16 or 15 teeth pulleys?
Actually I'm using 15th at 0.9 Steppers with a smoothieboard, and want to use this setup at the Metal Frame.

Anyone here who knows if there is enough space to use 15teeth pulleys?

Thanx
Dirk


I doubt a 15 would fit as the belt clearance with the 20 tooth pulley is already tight. 18 tooth might sneak by, but there is a good chance of belt rub.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by critical_limit » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:50 pm

Ok, thanx for your reply.

Ordered a Kit few minutes ago. Hope it won't take ages to find the way to Germany.
Brian? Am I in the next batch?

Anyway I will order 20 and 18 teeth pulleys to check if they will work...

Cheers
Dirk

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by 626Pilot » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:45 pm

ccavanaugh wrote:The long lengths are within .04mm and the widths are all within .02mm.
The 90 degree angle is darn near perfect. There is a barley detectable gap at the end.[/size]

If you decide to put my firmware on your Smoothieboard, I'd love to see the G31 Z output. That depth-maps the surface and displays the differences in height of all the points vs. center, and displays the mean and standard deviation of the deflections. That would give a pretty good first sample of how accurate these machines can be without any fancy autocorrection. Since the towers are so well-constrained, I would expect the numbers to be pretty low (zero is perfect).

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:05 am

critical_limit wrote:Ok, thanx for your reply.

Ordered a Kit few minutes ago. Hope it won't take ages to find the way to Germany.
Brian? Am I in the next batch?

Anyway I will order 20 and 18 teeth pulleys to check if they will work...

Cheers
Dirk


Thank you.
Yes you are in the second batch of (7) frames. material arrived Friday for those, so I will be milling them this week.
~*Brian V.

RostockMAX v2 (Stock)
MAX METAL "ShortyMAX"
MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
Rostock MAX "KITT" - Tri-Force Frame
GRABER i3 "Slim"

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:50 pm

I sourced smaller diameter idlers that are closer to size of the GT2-20 motor pulleys. They finally arrived Saturday.
They are a pair of flange bearings. They work great!
The first 2 frames used larger idlers from Openbuilds, they really where bigger than ideal.
Another bonus is you can adjust the width by adding or removing washer between the two halves. Some belts are a full 1/4" wide (6.35 mm) others I have used are only 5.5 mm wide.
All the frames are shipping with this improved idler size.
Trick Laser-MAX METAL Frame smaller idlers -01.jpg
Trick Laser-MAX METAL Frame smaller idlers -02.jpg
Trick Laser-MAX METAL Frame smaller idlers -03.jpg
Trick Laser-MAX METAL Frame smaller idlers -04.jpg
Trick Laser-MAX METAL Frame smaller idlers -06.jpg
Trick Laser-MAX METAL Frame smaller idlers -07.jpg
~*Brian V.

RostockMAX v2 (Stock)
MAX METAL "ShortyMAX"
MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
Rostock MAX "KITT" - Tri-Force Frame
GRABER i3 "Slim"

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by ccavanaugh » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:00 am

Very nice on the idler change Brian! I like the idea of being able to adjust for the width.

Having trapped the belt width, it makes for rub free operation. When I assembled the stepper motors, it was a simple exercise of measuring the pulleys, doing some match and presetting the pulley position of the bottom of the hub to center them in the frame.

My belts were the full 1/4" wide. Has SeeMeCNC changed, or are the 5.5mm just from a different source?

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:33 am

ccavanaugh wrote:Very nice on the idler change Brian! I like the idea of being able to adjust for the width.

Having trapped the belt width, it makes for rub free operation. When I assembled the stepper motors, it was a simple exercise of measuring the pulleys, doing some match and presetting the pulley position of the bottom of the hub to center them in the frame.

My belts were the full 1/4" wide. Has SeeMeCNC changed, or are the 5.5mm just from a different source?


My old Rostock MAX belts are full 1/4" wide. The Orion I have is 5.8 mm, belt I got from Openbuilds (I think) is 5.5 mm, some cheaper stuff from some ebay seller is only 5 mm wide. I do not know how wide current belt from SeeMe is.
Just depends on where you get it I guess. Must be why some is cheaper than others.
I do not like the narrower stuff.
Actually I would like to find wider for my NEMESIS printer, like 8 - 10 mm would be nice. Don't know of source, but I have not looked really hard.
~*Brian V.

RostockMAX v2 (Stock)
MAX METAL "ShortyMAX"
MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
Rostock MAX "KITT" - Tri-Force Frame
GRABER i3 "Slim"

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by JFettig » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:04 am

Why not offset the top pulley so the belt is parallel on the side that clamps onto the carriage? That will give you your parallel belt on the side that needs it, the other side won't matter, could be doing S curves the whole way up.

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