Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

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626Pilot
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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by 626Pilot » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:09 am

Does anyone have an STL of the Trick Trucks? That stuff is supposed to be open source, right?

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:44 pm

626Pilot wrote:Does anyone have an STL of the Trick Trucks? That stuff is supposed to be open source, right?


I don't have a .stl model handy, but here is a .dxf file.
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Trick Trucks rev3.dxf
(2.19 MiB) Downloaded 39 times
~*Brian V.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by 626Pilot » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:53 pm

Thanks, Brian! I'm gonna order another MAX METAL frame soon.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by TFMike » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:35 pm

Thanks for this file, you are a life saver! Quick question: what thickness of aluminum should I waterjet this out of?

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by Windshadow » Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:25 pm

The support of this site has me considering a max metal with duet/PannelDue 7inch electronics with DC's software https://github.com/dc42/RepRapFirmware/tree/dev/Release firmware as a path rather than the currently current arc of learn how to use the stock Maxv2 which i feel I am just starting to get a handle on things post user manual.

on the one hand the benefits of the max metal of greater rigidity and accuracy of construction address problems that I have not just encountered with the stock build. on the other coming for a background of subtractive creation in my home machine shop and as as self trained machinist viewtopic.php?f=59&t=9693#p83698 For mer a big part of this at my age is all about the journey and the friends I make along the way and the hope that what I learn I can use to help young makers to claw back the great strengths that I see exemplified by a place like this that was the creation of immigrants https://www.americanprecision.org My sister and I are childless and MY will endows the Amercian Precision Museum as for me it holds up a candle to the way every one on this north american continent other than the descendants of the original native population came her from somewhere else (note I enfolded the entire north american continent) (please note that I do not exclude makers everywhere in the world but I can only react to my own life experience )

other options are give it a few months and upgrade the maxV2 with the duet electronics package perhaps with the simplify3D software when I am feeling secure with the output from the stock machine.today I printer the part for a fairly complex for me thing http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:25624

Image...

and things were going fine for the first 4 parts in black abs when the next part gave me a birds nest and the major problem is I am not sure why
its a part that just went wrong for me perhaps i should try it with support tomorrow
Image


lingering at the back of my mind is a desire to drop my toe into SLA but the fact the SeeMeCNC does not even sell their own Drop Lit except through materHackers and the need to take $3000 projection TV to add to the kit MH sells is a major disincentive. if SeeMeCNC sold a full build kit with all the needed electronics that did not require a projection TV directly I would consider them as being first place in these considerations but right now only Form Labs Form 2 is making my credit card finger itchy :?
for any one that has read this ramble to the end thank you and as ever I am totally ope to advice and correction.

I append this here but perhaps I should start a fresh thread for this in the lounge or any other place that the masters of the forum might suggest
Last edited by Windshadow on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by mhackney » Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:46 pm

Print that tube(ish) part vertically. No supports needed.

I built one of the early Droplets. It's a good little printer but I don't use it as I hate the oder the resins give off. Very chemically smelling.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by 626Pilot » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:08 pm

The MAX METAL is a great frame, better than any of SeeMeCNC's. I get much truer prints with it, and I think you will too. The design and construction are objectively better, in several important ways. There are MANY fewer parts, it takes far less time to build, there are no unnecessary degrees of freedom anywhere in the structure, and it has specific design elements that are there to make it self-aligning. Once you take the rails out of the packaging and see how cleanly and elegantly they've been machined, you will see what I'm talking about. I have no trouble saying that every printer I build from here on out will use this frame. I see no legitimate reason to consider another.

The only thing I would improve would be to use magnetic or tensioned ball arms. I 3D printed some carriages to bolt up to the Trick Trucks, and an effector, for mag arms. They are so precise that I no longer need to use a heuristic calibration. I still do the endstops and delta radius (GeneB calibration) but that's it. Mag arms can be annoying, so to me the perfect system would use tensioned ball arms, like the Cherry Pi IIIS. If Trick Laser sold something like that, I'd buy it tomorrow rather than sourcing all the stuff myself.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bot » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:40 pm

I think one improvement that could be made to the max metal would be to expand the horizontal distance between towers so that the "triangle" is completely within the 280mm build volume. In my experience, this has been the largest factor in making it easy to get full use of the entire print volume.
*not actually a robot

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by TFMike » Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:29 pm

Does anyone kno what thickness of aluminum should be used when waterjetting the trick trucks?

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:19 pm

TFMike wrote:Thanks for this file, you are a life saver! Quick question: what thickness of aluminum should I waterjet this out of?


I make them from 1/8" thick 6061 aluminum.
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MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:44 pm

626Pilot wrote:The only thing I would improve would be to use magnetic or tensioned ball arms. I 3D printed some carriages to bolt up to the Trick Trucks, and an effector, for mag arms. They are so precise that I no longer need to use a heuristic calibration. I still do the endstops and delta radius (GeneB calibration) but that's it. Mag arms can be annoying, so to me the perfect system would use tensioned ball arms, like the Cherry Pi IIIS. If Trick Laser sold something like that, I'd buy it tomorrow rather than sourcing all the stuff myself.


Yes, balls to screw in place of the Traxxas end of Trick Laser CF Arms. It's in the works, I have had the parts and tooling for months... not enough hours in the day :(

I agree 100% about the tension spring/cord setup looks like the way to go. That's the plan. Either that or two spring each end pulling cup ends onto balls.
However, orienting cups and setting precise arm length as a field retrofit is much harder than screwing balls onto ends of arms.

I do not like the mag-ball-cup arms either, tried them, don't trust them and the stupid things can easily jump apart if you try to move platform by hand.
~*Brian V.

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MAX METAL "ShortyMAX"
MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
Rostock MAX "KITT" - Tri-Force Frame
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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:59 pm

I just uploaded a .stl model of the Trick Trucks to repables...
http://repables.com/r/715

also attached file to this post
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Trick Trucks rev3.stl
(128.4 KiB) Downloaded 20 times
~*Brian V.

RostockMAX v2 (Stock)
MAX METAL "ShortyMAX"
MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
Rostock MAX "KITT" - Tri-Force Frame
GRABER i3 "Slim"

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by 626Pilot » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:59 am

bvandiepenbos wrote:I agree 100% about the tension spring/cord setup looks like the way to go. That's the plan. Either that or two spring each end pulling cup ends onto balls.
However, orienting cups and setting precise arm length as a field retrofit is much harder than screwing balls onto ends of arms.

I do not like the mag-ball-cup arms either, tried them, don't trust them and the stupid things can easily jump apart if you try to move platform by hand.

This is very good news!

I designed my carriages/effector with the ball mounts as separate pieces, so I could redo them to have recessed cups if I went to tensioned ball arms. A 45-degree angle seems to provide optimal range of motion. I also made integrated belt clamps and decided to use the structure itself as an "endstop screw" since the offsets can be modified in firmware. There are two front pockets for captive locknuts, and a curved channel for tying up a flying extruder platform, or for doing tensioned ball arms.
Attachments
Mag Arms - Effector.jpg
Mag Arms - Carriage.jpg
Last edited by 626Pilot on Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by DerStig » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:29 am

How bout a BOM for those of us thinking about building out a Max Metal Frame?

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by 626Pilot » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:02 am

This is the basic part of my BOM. It gets you everything except the carriages, arms, effector, hot end, controller, and LCD panel. Doesn't include 3D-printed parts. Subtotal is $1,126.64, shipping excluded.

BOM.png

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by davec3275 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:36 pm

626Pilot wrote:This is the basic part of my BOM. It gets you everything except the carriages, arms, effector, hot end, controller, and LCD panel. Doesn't include 3D-printed parts. Subtotal is $1,126.64, shipping excluded.


What can I eliminate out of this if I were to use components from my Max V2? This looks like an amazing upgrade and would be worth the time and effort expended.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by 626Pilot » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:00 pm

You can reuse the steppers, pulleys (if they're the new 20-tooth ones from SeeMeCNC), hobbed drive gear, EZ-Struder, T-slot nuts, power supply, power switch, GT2 belts, binder clips, Onyx + glass, PTFE tubing, endstop switches, controller, and LCD panel. You can also leave out the paracord unless you're doing a flying extruder platform. The John Guest connector is the standard E3D PTC fitting, although they drill it out so you can pass the PTFE all the way through.

You also need a bunch of 3D-printed parts. The git repo is here.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:33 pm

I designed the MAX METAL Frame to re-use most everything from the Rostock MAX machine, basically a replacement of the wobbly imprecise wood frame. Other than needing to print a few brackets. You don't really *need* anything else that I can think of right now. Someone correct me please if I am forgetting something.
It would not be the prettiest thing, but with a bit of creative mounting you could reuse the LCD mount, Rambo mount, extruder mount, and spool holder from the current v2 kit. May save a bit and would save time printing the parts. ...call it up-cycling ;)

Although the printed parts designed by ccavanaugh look very good and are a solid design. It would be one of the nicest build options.
~*Brian V.

RostockMAX v2 (Stock)
MAX METAL "ShortyMAX"
MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
Rostock MAX "KITT" - Tri-Force Frame
GRABER i3 "Slim"

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by DerStig » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:08 am

bvandiepenbos wrote:I designed the MAX METAL Frame to re-use most everything from the Rostock MAX machine, basically a replacement of the wobbly imprecise wood frame. Other than needing to print a few brackets. You don't really *need* anything else that I can think of right now. Someone correct me please if I am forgetting something.
It would not be the prettiest thing, but with a bit of creative mounting you could reuse the LCD mount, Rambo mount, extruder mount, and spool holder from the current v2 kit. May save a bit and would save time printing the parts. ...call it up-cycling ;)

Although the printed parts designed by ccavanaugh look very good and are a solid design. It would be one of the nicest build options.



Oh I know that. I'm just thinking of going well...... Hotrod.....

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:23 am

I think a "Rat Rod" theme printer would be cool. If you know what that is?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_rod
Last edited by bvandiepenbos on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RostockMAX v2 (Stock)
MAX METAL "ShortyMAX"
MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
Rostock MAX "KITT" - Tri-Force Frame
GRABER i3 "Slim"

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by davec3275 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:27 am

626Pilot wrote:You can reuse the steppers, pulleys (if they're the new 20-tooth ones from SeeMeCNC), hobbed drive gear, EZ-Struder, T-slot nuts, power supply, power switch, GT2 belts, binder clips, Onyx + glass, PTFE tubing, endstop switches, controller, and LCD panel. You can also leave out the paracord unless you're doing a flying extruder platform. The John Guest connector is the standard E3D PTC fitting, although they drill it out so you can pass the PTFE all the way through.

You also need a bunch of 3D-printed parts. The git repo is here.


Thanks for the information. How would I know if the pulleys are the newer ones or not? I bought my V2 at the very end of September and received it early October 2015.

I would love to work towards this upgrade to know for 100% certain my printer is totally square and level. I know I have a slight deviation in 2 towers, one is sitting at 90.1 degress from Onyx and the other is 89.9 degrees. The third is dead on.

I don't mind the printing of parts. I would rather print the new ones anyway.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by bvandiepenbos » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:33 am

You have 20 tooth pulleys.
It has been since the early v1 days that kits used smaller size.
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RostockMAX v2 (Stock)
MAX METAL "ShortyMAX"
MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
Rostock MAX "KITT" - Tri-Force Frame
GRABER i3 "Slim"

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by DerStig » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:56 pm

bvandiepenbos wrote:I think a "Rat Rod" theme printer would be cool. If you know what that is?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_rod



Yeah I know what Rat Rods are...

Think more Concept car

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by ccavanaugh » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:23 pm

I've updated the limit switch bracket with a new version that uses less material and frees up some space on the top rail.

The switch sits a bit lower to clear the assembly screws, but it still allows enough room for end stop adjustments.

It's available in the Git repo in my signature.

Limit Switch Bracket v2.png
Version 2 of the limit switch bracket.

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Re: Trick Laser MAX METAL Build

Post by DerStig » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:16 pm

Brian V,

Lets play a what if game.... what if I had a 400mm heated print bed? what if I had either 400mm arms or 500mm arms.... could you scale up the frame so that 400mm build plate could be inside the towers? that would be a MAX max metal... Thinking maybe a Kraken 4 filament head driven by a Panucatt Azteeg X3 PRO with their Viki 2.0 LCD

I dunno, Crazy?

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