Bob64's Max Metal Build

Such as Laser cutters (Must use the phrase 'sharks with frickin lazors' once per thread)
bob64
Printmaster!
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby bob64 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:23 am

I decided to retrofit my Rostock Max v2 into a metal max. I have a ton of parts coming in. I'm planning on building it "inverted" with the steppers on the top for easier wiring. Duet mounted on the top with ssr/power supplies mounted on the bottom. Anyway decided to make my own thread so I can keep my thoughts in one place lol.

Upgraded parts I currently have and are planning on re-using:
Duet .85 control board
e3dv6 + 713maker mount
24v meanwell power supply + crydom ssr
12v stock atx power supply with excess wiring cleaned up.
Tricklaser cf arms
Tricklaser tricktrucks
stovetop firestop reactive fire suppression

Parts I've ordered:
Tricklaser Metal max frame
Tricklaser fly-n-strude
Tricklaser metal platform + carriage
e3d titan coldend
angel eye lcd ring
20 Tooth drive gears
.9 degree steppers
12x12 cork board for heated bed insulation
Replacement snowflake (current one is warped into a dome)
3 FSR + johnsl board

Misc items:
food dehydrator (for filament drying)
Last edited by bob64 on Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS

ccavanaugh
Printmaster!
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:03 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Bob64's Metal Max build

Postby ccavanaugh » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:43 am

16 Tooth drive gears will not fit without grinding the belts. You need to stick with the 20 tooth gears unless you take a different approach for the belt path. Everything else looks great.

bob64
Printmaster!
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Bob64's Metal Max build

Postby bob64 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:09 am

Whoops. I somehow got 16 stuck in my head. Just checked my order and it was 20 teeth.
Anyway. Just got my stepper motors... where's the freaking packaging?
http://imgur.com/a/NLCDy
There's literally just some brown paper on top. Nothing to prevent the motors from sliding around. Even stepper motors I've purchased from china were better packaged then this.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS

User avatar
geneb
ULTIMATE 3D JEDDI
Posts: 4358
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:47 pm
Location: Graham, WA
Contact:

Re: Bob64's Metal Max build

Postby geneb » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:56 am

I'd return them.

When someone from SFE shows up in #sparkfun, I'll send them a link to that photo. That packing job is completely unacceptable, as is the damage done in transit.

g.
Delta Power!
Defeat the Cartesian Agenda!
http://www.f15sim.com - 80-0007, The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - Technical and Simulator Projects

ccavanaugh
Printmaster!
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:03 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Bob64's Metal Max build

Postby ccavanaugh » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:08 pm

I ordered these http://www.ultibots.com/nema-17-0-9-degree-stepper-motor/ along with the Astrosyn dampers and they are virtually quiet with the Duet controller. Each motor was individually packaged and well protected.

The loudest component of the build is the Bondtech extruder which is still quiet.

User avatar
geneb
ULTIMATE 3D JEDDI
Posts: 4358
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:47 pm
Location: Graham, WA
Contact:

Re: Bob64's Metal Max build

Postby geneb » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:49 pm

Bob64, email Sparkfun about this - they'll get it handled. I'm pretty sure someone in shipping is gonna get yelled at. :)

g.
Delta Power!
Defeat the Cartesian Agenda!
http://www.f15sim.com - 80-0007, The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - Technical and Simulator Projects

bob64
Printmaster!
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Bob64's Metal Max build

Postby bob64 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:05 pm

Yeah, I've already called them yesterday and they told me to send an email to their tech support email address with the pictures. At this point it's been over 20 hours with no response to my email yet... sigh.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS

User avatar
Eaglezsoar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDDI
Posts: 7185
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:26 pm

Re: Bob64's Metal Max build

Postby Eaglezsoar » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:18 pm

bob64 wrote:Yeah, I've already called them yesterday and they told me to send an email to their tech support email address with the pictures. At this point it's been over 20 hours with no response to my email yet... sigh.


Give them another day and email them again, this time point out that this is your second email and you would expect better service.
“ Do Not Regret Growing Older. It is a Privilege Denied to Many. ”

User avatar
geneb
ULTIMATE 3D JEDDI
Posts: 4358
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:47 pm
Location: Graham, WA
Contact:

Re: Bob64's Metal Max build

Postby geneb » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:10 am

Bob64, if you haven't heard back from them yet, let me know via email (my address is on the front page of the manual). I'll hop into the #sparkfun channel again and rattle some cages.

g.
Delta Power!
Defeat the Cartesian Agenda!
http://www.f15sim.com - 80-0007, The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - Technical and Simulator Projects

bob64
Printmaster!
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Bob64's Metal Max build

Postby bob64 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:49 pm

Welp. Looks like with geneb's help we rattled enough cages that I got an email reply right as I was talking to their customer service number and 16 minutes after I sent a message to their returns department. Hopefully my replacement set of steppers will be shipped with more... protection.

I've gotten the rest of my parts, including a new snowflake. Going to review the installation instructions and start marking down how many t-nuts I'll probably need for each section.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS

User avatar
Windshadow
Printmaster!
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:35 pm
Location: Mid Coast Maine

Re: Bob64's Metal Max build

Postby Windshadow » Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:40 pm

I am a OFWG Cynic and I see three outcomes for your steppers when they get back to the vendor...(note I know nothing about this outfit and they seem to be handling this properly... I am speaking in general about the typical small reseller of this sort of gear.

1. if they are a totally up front outfit they will test them and if ok on a smoke and test for a few hours of cycling operation and if they pass they will sell them as second quality open box items and if they fail they will be scrapped and written off

2 if they are one step down from there they will test them and if ok on a smoke ands test for a few hours of cycling then they will go back into stock and if they fail the testing they will be scrapped and written off

3 if they are like most suppliers of import gear they will put em back into stock and deal with any problems that arise if they come back again the next time they are sold

bob64
Printmaster!
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Bob64's Metal Max build

Postby bob64 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:14 pm

What's an OFWG Cynic?

Surprisingly, they didn't even want the steppers back. So now I've got 4 potentially flaky steppers to fiddle around with if I felt like it. The 5th stepper is going in the e-waste pile for sure, the shaft gets "stuck" in certain places. The others sorta feel rough, but I guess I'll compare with the replacement steppers once I get them.... hopefully better packaged. If these replacements show up in the same lack of packaging, then I'm buying from somewhere else.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS

User avatar
Windshadow
Printmaster!
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:35 pm
Location: Mid Coast Maine

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby Windshadow » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:52 pm

That moves them up a large step into a true class act.... call it position 0 and make a note to look at what they offer dealing with a problem this way is the way things should work... one of the reasons I bought a SeeMeCNC RMaxV2 kit is lurking here for a few months and watching how they treated the customers with problems

Old Fat White-haired Guy (the more than mature version of the 20 something in the parents basement) who far to often suspects the worst of companies and wishes that he has not become so jaundiced about a lot of the modern vendors of hobby stuff on the net. see image in the avatar of my goal weight version

bob64
Printmaster!
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby bob64 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:28 am

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree at this point. I do wish their response time was a bit better however.

Anyway, I've begun assembling the max metal frame... but I think I might need more t-nuts based on my rough guesstimate below:
T-nut Positioning reference:

Crossmember slot, number of t-nuts, position identification
1) <stepper holes (frame is inverted)
2) 3 tnuts, top highest double t-slot 1 of 2 (1 for spool holder or misc items, 2 for endstop)
3) 2 tnuts bottom highest double t-slot 2 of 2 (2 for electronics mount, maybe some tnuts needed here for enclosure?)
4) 4 tnuts topmost bottom double t-slot 1 of 2 (2 for heated bed support, 2 for power supply mount, maybe 2 more for enclosure?)
5) 4 tnuts bottom-most bottom double t-slot 2 of 2 (2 for feet, 2 for power supply/ssr mount)
6) idler pulley

Don't be an idiot like me and have the middle t-slot of the vertical extrusion facing outward as you'll need those facing inward for the carriage belt. Had to disassemble and reassemble.

I'm also taking pictures as I go. So maybe we'll have a geneb assembly guide soon.
As for wiring through the vertical extrusion (numbered 1,2,3), I have:
1) 8x 24awg utp cat5e (jacket removed) to provide ethernet connectivity to the duet.
2) 2x 18awg wire (salvaged from a server A/C power cord rated for 10 amps) Should be fine to power the steppers + hotend + fans especially at 24v.
Bed is powered by 24v power supply controlled via SSR at base of the printer.
3) 3x 22awg wire (for FSR) + 6x 24awg wire (2 for SSR relay, 2 for bed thermistor, and the remaining 2 for future expansion)


Also back to the 16tooth gear discussion, several people mentioned it didn't rub in the other thread - did they find rubbing later on?
Also I've been thinking... why not attach the frame, assuming it's conductive (Don't have my multimeter with me at the moment), to the - on the power supply like a car? Saves on wiring as you only need half as many wires for power... Or am I forgetting something?
Last edited by bob64 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS

bob64
Printmaster!
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby bob64 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:56 pm

My build is currently at a standstill because I still haven't gotten my steppers from Sparkfun yet. I called them today and the first time they said they'll call me back. I had to call them again 7 hours later to get them to realize they DIDN'T EVEN SHIP MY STEPPERS. 12 days ago they basically told me they would ship replacements and 12 days later I find out they didn't. So much for being patient. I'm pissed now.
Last edited by bob64 on Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS

User avatar
Xenocrates
ULTIMATE 3D JEDDI
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:55 pm

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby Xenocrates » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:31 pm

Sorry to not address the question at the end of the last post earlier. There are very good reasons why not to, such as wanting it tied to ground for shielding (Of course, the - and ground should in theory be the same with DC, but I want that green wire where it belongs in case the PSU misbehaves), and not wanting to connect things which may be at different voltages to the same ground wire. You also don't want to have too much current across your frame, as while it may be on average large enough to handle the load easily, I'm sure the anodization and other processes make it a far from excellent cable substitute.

But the biggest to me is that I want to be able to disconnect the wiring on a component and be sure it's dead, rather than being potentially energized by being attached to the frame, if the negative is floating.
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, 760W corsair modular PSU, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, self adjusting carriages, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

bob64
Printmaster!
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby bob64 » Fri May 06, 2016 1:05 am

Note for future builders: print those pesky tensioner caps slightly bigger. It's a tight fit for me and I broke like 6 of them... Print em out of something stronger than PLA too, but if you don't, print em like 1-3% larger in the x/y direction. I used a sequence of 3 washers, bearing, large washer,bearing,3 washers for the end with the bearing. Also, buy #4-40 nuts for the bed... since you can't re-use the existing bed nuts that go into the melamine. While you're at it, buy some longer M4 M5 bolts for the tensioner caps as well. 35mm should be enough - depending on if you want more washers or so.

Edit: son of a bitch. They're m5 bolts for the tensioner caps.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS

User avatar
Eaglezsoar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDDI
Posts: 7185
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:26 pm

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby Eaglezsoar » Mon May 30, 2016 7:30 am

Any updates to your Max Metal Build Bob64?
“ Do Not Regret Growing Older. It is a Privilege Denied to Many. ”

bob64
Printmaster!
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby bob64 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:20 am

Yeah, some progress being made. I really started liking the print quality/improved repeatability of calibration after replacing the snowflake/top base plate of my current rostock max v2. Also loving the retraction calibration with the fly-n-strude modifications to it. So, I decided to change the scope of this project: Build the max metal as a completely separate printer so I end up with two heavily upgraded printers. Had to order more parts: new belt, new onyx, new bed glass, new heat spreader, new auber ssr, e3d v6, e3d titan, 713maker mount, new duet board, and other tricklaser backordered stuff. Shipping fees are killing me haha. Also I hear the next gen version of the duet is coming out later this year which is a bummer.

Already modified the auber SSR to take the same screws as the t-nuts so I can bolt it to the frame and partially sink what little heat it generates to the frame. Also going to be making/modifying some sort of mount for the dangling FSR board and bolt that to the same rail as the SSR to keep the wiring neat. As for the duet, I've cut out a 1/4" plywood board so it fits above the printer as a sort of shelf for now. Been crimping wires that I've ran up the towers for connection into the duet. Currently debating if I want to cut two layers of plywood and "hide" the wiring inside.

Also I'm modifying this design http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1533835 so there's room to put on the titan cover without cracking the pla.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS

User avatar
DeltaCon
Printmaster!
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:01 am
Location: Wessem, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby DeltaCon » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:52 am

Ooh... not sure if you really want your frame to act as a heatsink because of the easy lengthening of alu profile under heat. But I hear the Auber does not produce a lot of heat, and many people even use it without, so probably no problem at all. Can you say something about how hot a Crydom like you have in your other machine gets? Do I need a heatsink? Planning on upgrading in a week or two.
I am DeltaCon, I have a delta, my name is Con, I am definitely PRO delta! ;-)
Rostock V2 / E3D V6 / Raymond Style Heatchamber on the way!

PS.: Sorry for the avatar, that's my other hobby!

User avatar
Xenocrates
ULTIMATE 3D JEDDI
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:55 pm

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby Xenocrates » Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:42 am

DeltaCon wrote:Ooh... not sure if you really want your frame to act as a heatsink because of the easy lengthening of alu profile under heat. But I hear the Auber does not produce a lot of heat, and many people even use it without, so probably no problem at all. Can you say something about how hot a Crydom like you have in your other machine gets? Do I need a heatsink? Planning on upgrading in a week or two.


I think sinking heat to the frame with something like the Auber doesn't matter much. Aluminum is quite thermally conductive, and the frame has much larger thermal mass than the SSR, meaning it will warm less. It should also transfer more of the heat to other frame elements. But thermal expansion of the system is going to happen whether the SSR is sinked to it or not, as the Onyx has rather a large amount of power, (Especially with 24V), and with a Duet, so long as it's up to operating temperatures, that can be compensated for (I assume you're using auto-calibration of some sort with a Duet)
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, 760W corsair modular PSU, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, self adjusting carriages, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

bob64
Printmaster!
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby bob64 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:34 pm

DeltaCon wrote:Can you say something about how hot a Crydom like you have in your other machine gets? Do I need a heatsink? Planning on upgrading in a week or two.

It doesn't get hot all all either (tested with thermocouple). I have it sitting on my meanwell power supply casing to sink any heat it does generate in the future.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS

User avatar
Tincho85
Printmaster!
Posts: 653
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:27 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby Tincho85 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:59 pm

Come on Bob, we want some pictures! :D
Martín S.

User avatar
Eaglezsoar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDDI
Posts: 7185
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:26 pm

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby Eaglezsoar » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:44 am

I second Tincho85's request!
“ Do Not Regret Growing Older. It is a Privilege Denied to Many. ”

bob64
Printmaster!
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Bob64's Max Metal Build

Postby bob64 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:06 am

I made an album on Imgur here: http://imgur.com/a/YPBU2

Haven't got it printing yet, been fiddling with the duet config.

Custom parts:
Feet - Could probably use improvements like some sort of mounting for the metalmax stock feet or something.: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aegm65cwmwiy0 ... t.stl?dl=0
modified FSR board mount : https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a0nrllwhg07y ... t.stl?dl=0
angle mount for the wood parts I'm using. https://www.dropbox.com/s/77ra0x7fkpujf ... p.stl?dl=0
modified fly-n-strude variant that fixes some minor issues: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vp9y3hz13qujy ... _.stl?dl=0

Also I contacted Auber about where you should place the "load" on the output side of the SSR. They said: "For DC SSR, it doesn't matter which side do you connect the load. But for AC SSR, we would recommend you put the load on neutral side so the load is not "hot" when SSR is not conducting current."

Since we're using DC-DC SSR's it really doesn't matter where we wire the heated bed.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS


Return to “Other Machines”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests