Atlas 3D Scanner

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Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by nitewatchman » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:38 pm

Anybody tried the Atlas 3D Scanner?

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by Jimustanguitar » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:00 am

I backed the campaign, just a donation - no reward or anything, so I had a set of the printable files early on. Always intended to do something with them, but never really started the project.

I haven't shopped scanners in a while, but when I did it seemed like the Atlas was the best no-nonsense design in that price/complexity range.

Let us know if you end up buying/building one!

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by mhackney » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:31 am

A comment on scanners...

I have a Cyclops scanner - pretty similar in design and capabilities to the Atlas. It assembled beautifully, a very nicely designed machine. The issue is the software tool chain. No one that I'm aware of has "scan to STL" software. You scan and get a point cloud. The process to go from the point cloud to a printable STL is, in my opinion, a nightmare for mortal users. Even with my image processing experience it was a pain. Cyclops has Horus - a nicely done scanner interface/control application. From there you have to use a 3rd party tool like meshlab. It's like giving a box of bolts, buts, wires, aluminum sheet and rod and other raw materials along with a machine shop and saying "here, build an airplane" (tip of the hat to Gene)!

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by geneb » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:01 am

Heh.

I needed a unique scan done recently (left combiner glass frame for the HUD in the F-15) and I took it to a place called FabLab Tacoma. The guy that runs the place is awesome.

They've got a scanner that will take a pretty good sized object - roughly 18-24" tall. I don't recall the name of the scanner but it was made by Roland, was purple-ish and sent the data to the host over a serial cable.

It uses a turntable to turn the part and a laser to do the scanning. The software will directly output STL files, but unfortunately the scanner couldn't get a usable result. The suspicion was that due to the dark surface that the scanner was unable to really do a proper job. It sucks because I REALLY need that thing scanned and I cannot let that part out of my sight. I've thought about building my own scanner but found that the only one I knew about (Davide) has gotten so snooty about their tool chain that you can't even get pricing from their website. You have to ask for a quote from a "Reseller".

f' that, yo. :)

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by BuckeyeVolunteer » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:32 am

I just bought a dev kit with the intel realsense f200 and r200 3d cameras, they work well but the software isn't there yet. It does work on win 10 on the hello function and 3d systems has an app call 3dme that works. I have alot of reading before I can start righting my own apps for it.

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by teoman » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:25 pm

Geneb,

One of the techniques used to scan transparent objects with a laser is to powder them.

So if you dusted it with say flour, the scanner might eork.




Random info: During a phd thesis where my friend was building a scanner for transparent objects we used IR cameras and an IR laser. I think the same technique should work here aswell.
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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by bot » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:30 pm

Photogrammetry is better than any of the other budget methods of scanning. Get auto desk memento or 123d catch, and a decent camera.
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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by geneb » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:31 pm

It's not transparent, it's cast titanium I think.

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by BuckeyeVolunteer » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:00 pm

shiny and clear are hard to get in photogrammetry but still works the best.

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by Glacian22 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:02 am

Also, if you're trying to scan clear or translucent surfaces (like a helmet with a visor) you can use masking tape to cover the surface. Takes some prep work, but works like a charm and cleans up easily.

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by schlrobe » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:57 am

As someone who manages a 3d scanning lab I can say that the Atlas looks a lot better than most of the "inexpensive" scanners out there. Especially the NextEngine, which we have had since the hardware beta for it. I may look into buying one for research purposes... The David system is an ok scanner as far as that goes. A little expensive, since just the software is around $2500 the last time I checked. It may have come down since then however.

Gene, If the part you want scanned is 100% metal 99.99 % of industrial scanners will capture it without modification. The guy you went to may be using one of the 0.1% that don't ;-) Reguardless, powdering it (not with flour but with talc or gypsum, MUCH smaller grain size on these ) will allow the scanner to see it. At least that's been my experience over the last 10+ years of doing this.

As far as photogrammetry being cheaper and easier... wellllllllll, um.... no. Not reallly :-(

To do photogrammetry right required a professional camera ($1000+), professional lenses ($500+ per lens), and a professional lighting set up ($1000 per light, minimum of three). Software like Autodesk's consumer photogrammetry suites (Momento, 123d, etc) are designed for use with your cell phone camera, tablet camera, etc. and produce very low accuracy models. To get the kinds of accuracy you want for your models through photogrammertry you would need one the professional suites, which aren't cheap. They also take ENORMOUS amounts of time to process and a monster computer to handle the minimum system requirements for the software (minimum specs usually are a quad core, with 32 gig ram. Recommended is 16 to 32 cores, 256+ gig ram). The guys at Autodesk can process things in the cloud so fast because they have a few thousand servers dedicated to nothing but processing other people's images.

Unfortunately for you my lab is way the hell over here in Idaho. We do contract work, but you'd have to ship us the part or travel with it (or pay to have us travel to you). I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that isn't in the cards :-)

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by bvandiepenbos » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:20 pm

geneb wrote:Heh.

I needed a unique scan done recently (left combiner glass frame for the HUD in the F-15) and I took it to a place called FabLab Tacoma. The guy that runs the place is awesome.

They've got a scanner that will take a pretty good sized object - roughly 18-24" tall. I don't recall the name of the scanner but it was made by Roland, was purple-ish and sent the data to the host over a serial cable.

It uses a turntable to turn the part and a laser to do the scanning. The software will directly output STL files, but unfortunately the scanner couldn't get a usable result. The suspicion was that due to the dark surface that the scanner was unable to really do a proper job. It sucks because I REALLY need that thing scanned and I cannot let that part out of my sight. I've thought about building my own scanner but found that the only one I knew about (Davide) has gotten so snooty about their tool chain that you can't even get pricing from their website. You have to ask for a quote from a "Reseller".

f' that, yo. :)

g.


If you paint it with white spray plasti-dip it might scan OK. You should be able to peel the layer of plastic off the part without damaging it. maybe. don't blame me if it ruins the part somehow!
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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by teoman » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:25 pm

The idea in my post was, if it does not "see" it because of reflections, you can mask the reflective surfaces with a powder.
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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by geneb » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:40 pm

I like Robert's idea with the talc. Air blasting that off won't harm the serial number ink stamp. If it works, I'll post a pic of the scan here. :)
Thanks!

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by mhackney » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:49 pm

Gene, what about just drawing the part in CAD, printing it and then scanning it? You can print it with a low reflectivity filament or even paint it afterwards. No chance on damaging the original part you want to scan then.

(fyi, the above was a joke)

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by IMBoring25 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:35 pm

Well, if a part is simple enough, calipers may be enough to constrain a workable model...

Another option would be taking a splash off it in a non-reflective material and taking the negative of the splash.

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by geneb » Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:33 pm

*throws wet sponge at mhackney*

The problem is that the part has a couple of bends in it that make it damn difficult to measure.
Here's a side view of the frame: http://www.geneb.org/images/hud-left-side.jpg

It's the upper most part - it holds the two combiner glass panes.

I did a pretty fair approximation of it by scanning it in a flatbed scanner and then tracing the part in SolidWorks, but it's still not good enough.

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by bot » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:11 pm

schlrobe wrote:As someone who manages a 3d scanning lab I can say that the Atlas looks a lot better than most of the "inexpensive" scanners out there. Especially the NextEngine, which we have had since the hardware beta for it. I may look into buying one for research purposes... The David system is an ok scanner as far as that goes. A little expensive, since just the software is around $2500 the last time I checked. It may have come down since then however.

Gene, If the part you want scanned is 100% metal 99.99 % of industrial scanners will capture it without modification. The guy you went to may be using one of the 0.1% that don't ;-) Reguardless, powdering it (not with flour but with talc or gypsum, MUCH smaller grain size on these ) will allow the scanner to see it. At least that's been my experience over the last 10+ years of doing this.

As far as photogrammetry being cheaper and easier... wellllllllll, um.... no. Not reallly :-(

To do photogrammetry right required a professional camera ($1000+), professional lenses ($500+ per lens), and a professional lighting set up ($1000 per light, minimum of three). Software like Autodesk's consumer photogrammetry suites (Momento, 123d, etc) are designed for use with your cell phone camera, tablet camera, etc. and produce very low accuracy models. To get the kinds of accuracy you want for your models through photogrammertry you would need one the professional suites, which aren't cheap. They also take ENORMOUS amounts of time to process and a monster computer to handle the minimum system requirements for the software (minimum specs usually are a quad core, with 32 gig ram. Recommended is 16 to 32 cores, 256+ gig ram). The guys at Autodesk can process things in the cloud so fast because they have a few thousand servers dedicated to nothing but processing other people's images.

Unfortunately for you my lab is way the hell over here in Idaho. We do contract work, but you'd have to ship us the part or travel with it (or pay to have us travel to you). I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that isn't in the cards :-)

Robert



You are exaggerating things immensely. First of all, Memento is NOT a consumer-grade solution. It is a professional piece of software that is free to use when it is in beta. It is not designed to be used with cell phones, like 123d catch is.

Second, you likely haven't used 123d catch or Memento enough, because they can produce VERY high quality meshes.

Third, you absolutely do not require $1500 worth of photography equipment. Like I said, a $300 EOS M will absolutely give you enough to scan an object nearly-perfectly (given the right enviornmental factors).

If you overlook photogrammetry, you are overlooking one of the best methods for low-cost scanning.
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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by Eaglezsoar » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:19 pm

geneb wrote:*throws wet sponge at mhackney*

The problem is that the part has a couple of bends in it that make it damn difficult to measure.
Here's a side view of the frame: http://www.geneb.org/images/hud-left-side.jpg

It's the upper most part - it holds the two combiner glass panes.

I did a pretty fair approximation of it by scanning it in a flatbed scanner and then tracing the part in SolidWorks, but it's still not good enough.

g.


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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by geneb » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:50 am

It was virtual. For him to get the full effect, he'll need a local wet sponge application system. :D

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by Eaglezsoar » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:30 pm

geneb wrote:It was virtual. For him to get the full effect, he'll need a local wet sponge application system. :D

g.



Oh no, you should not have said that, he'll have one built before the month is over. :)
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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by bot » Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:51 am

Example of 3D scanning:


Guess what technology was used. ;)
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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by Windshadow » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:10 am

Impressive Bot,

I was at a local museum and they were scanning some of their collection and they had can of photographers kill shine that they were using on things like glass, it seemed to wipe right off as they finished with an object. the scanner was a large gadget on a heavy surveying tripod and I think it had a Trimble logo on it.

I thought Trimble did high end GPS surveying instruments I was surprised that they did 3d scanners as well. also no one was wearing laser safe glasses so it must use a low power laser.... i expect the price of such a gadget and the price of the required software support is of the "if you have to ask you can't afford it" level.

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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by barry99705 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:01 am

Windshadow wrote:Impressive Bot,

I was at a local museum and they were scanning some of their collection and they had can of photographers kill shine that they were using on things like glass, it seemed to wipe right off as they finished with an object. the scanner was a large gadget on a heavy surveying tripod and I think it had a Trimble logo on it.

I thought Trimble did high end GPS surveying instruments I was surprised that they did 3d scanners as well. also no one was wearing laser safe glasses so it must use a low power laser.... i expect the price of such a gadget and the price of the required software support is of the "if you have to ask you can't afford it" level.



Cough!!!! http://www.surveyinghill.com/3d-surveyi ... 3d-scanner
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Re: Atlas 3D Scanner

Post by Eaglezsoar » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:03 am

barry99705 wrote:
Windshadow wrote:Impressive Bot,

I was at a local museum and they were scanning some of their collection and they had can of photographers kill shine that they were using on things like glass, it seemed to wipe right off as they finished with an object. the scanner was a large gadget on a heavy surveying tripod and I think it had a Trimble logo on it.

I thought Trimble did high end GPS surveying instruments I was surprised that they did 3d scanners as well. also no one was wearing laser safe glasses so it must use a low power laser.... i expect the price of such a gadget and the price of the required software support is of the "if you have to ask you can't afford it" level.



Cough!!!! http://www.surveyinghill.com/3d-surveyi ... 3d-scanner


Now that is expensive!

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