ARTEMIS

General hangout discussion area for other non-printing stuff
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Outsider
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ARTEMIS

Postby Outsider » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:45 pm


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Tincho85
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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby Tincho85 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:33 pm

Woaaa nice! 24v system, Duet, AC Bed, Rails, huge printable area, this is awesome.
https://www.seemecnc.com/collections/3d ... rtemis-300

Good job guys.

One thing, please don't take it wrong, the web page needs far more love. Too few pictures of the printers you are selling and poorly edited.
They for sure don't reflect the high quality products you are selling.
Martín S.

AlanZ
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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby AlanZ » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:34 pm

I ordered an Artemis today... looks like a fine machine.

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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby wepollock » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:57 pm

Just ordered one.... ironically two days ago I sent suggestions to SeeMeCNC regarding some of the additional features I was looking for.
I was looking to jump forward from my Rostock Max V2 (which was extensively modified and thus is currently a franken-printer). I had the V2 since April of 2016 and I could keep it running indefinitely, it is a work horse.

The Artemis addresses 80% of my "wish list," covering some of the key features I was looking for. The RM-V3 did not go far enough into the feature set that I was looking for, it was a marginal improvement over V2. I was thinking about going to "Laser Sintering with Formlabs - it's not the cost of the printer, it is the fact that the consumables are expensive - even though you can recycle to some extent).

What it does;

Metal frame - yep
AC heated bed - yep
Linear Rails - yep
32 Bit board (and smaller stepping)- yep
Accelerometer leveling (with RM-V2, I get a good first layer over the whole bed, but it takes some time to get there).
Higher temperatures - Nylon and PETG

What I would like

Totally Enclosed - IMHO it vastly improves print quality (I was looking into WASP)
24V
Integrated (geared) extruder on the hot end - using a small stepper; or 3mm filament
Additional printing diameter = I understand this is allot harder to do in software
Last edited by wepollock on Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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geneb
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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby geneb » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:04 pm

There's currently an active patent (Stratasys I think) on heated chambers. You'll never see a commercial offering from any company other than them until that patent expires.

24? Why? The only advantage to a 24v system is for bed heat and the Artemis as a 110v AC heater.

Additional printing diameter doesn't have anything to do with the software beyond telling it what the diameter actually IS.

g.
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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby Qdeathstar » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:27 pm

Wow. That is a nice printer. If i wasnt already building a coreXY it would definitely be on my want list. Its got a lot of high-quality features. I love the fact that SeeMeCNC finally decided to switch from RAMBO to Duet.

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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby wepollock » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:02 pm

Some more good points.

-looks like the Aluminum extrusion is more robust
-looks like belt tightening is easier to do
-looking forward to a non-e3d hot end (I think these guys machine them all, better safety features as well)

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Renha
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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby Renha » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:55 pm

So sad it’s 110 V only
3D printing is magic!

Sorry my engrish :-/ you could PM me in Russian.

dc42
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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby dc42 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:37 pm

wepollock wrote:Just ordered one.... ironically two days ago I sent suggestions to SeeMeCNC regarding some of the additional features I was looking for.
...
What I would like
...
24V
...
Additional printing diameter = I understand this is allot harder to do in software

- Are you sure that the Artemis isn't 24V? Given that they have changed to 0.9deg motors and are claiming higher speeds, I think it may be 24V already.

- I don't understand what you mean by "Additional printing diameter = I understand this is allot harder to do in software". Duets are already being used to control some large delta printers, including a 3.5m high x 1m diameter model.
Last edited by dc42 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby Minim » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:34 pm

Crazy price on that thing. Genuine Hiwin rails or Copies?

wepollock
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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby wepollock » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:07 pm

W/O writing a white paper

A veneer exists re 3d printers - there is allot of things going on beyond the configuration file. behind the scenes SeemeCNC (based on some primary work by J Rocholl et al/software developers) integrated all these complex elements into a great product line. They do a much better job in integrating a printer than I can do, having built two delta's myself.

In terms of error reduction, having a very rigid frame is a major improvement.

Software is managing how/when/order of "interrupts" are being handled/timed/prioritized on a very small processor (even at 32 bits). There are many interrupts (stepper commands) vs relative to limited sequential-processing capacity of the processor. There is also a statistical error map for delta printers. There was/is "genius" level programming which makes the 3d printer work on a small processor.

Steppers use phases; which/how/what coils get energized in the stepper AND with what waveform.

Stepper drivers will manage the current is going through the coils, the software sends signal to the drivers;

12v vs 24v is a fine point; current is the driving force in resistive heating, voltage drop across the resistor is less so.

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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby dc42 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:47 am

The point about 24V vs. 12V is that at high speeds, higher drive voltages are needed to overcome the inductance and back emf due to rotation of the stepper motors, especially when using 0.9deg motors. The Duet wiki covers this at https://duet3d.com/wiki/Choosing_steppe ... e_you_need.

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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby AlanZ » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:54 am

During a video session on Friday, either JJ or Ryan said that the Artemis is 12 volts. They wrestled with the decision, and did not think 24 volts was necessary... and they would have to re-source items like fans, etc. So 12 volts it is.

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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby wepollock » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:26 am

dc42 wrote:The point about 24V vs. 12V is that at high speeds, higher drive voltages are needed to overcome the inductance and back emf due to rotation of the stepper motors, especially when using 0.9deg motors. The Duet wiki covers this at https://duet3d.com/wiki/Choosing_steppe ... e_you_need.


Designer (guys that designed the core geometry-kinematics, software electronics etc), integrator (SeemeCNC), hobbyist (edits a config file, build a printer or two), end user (turns the keys on and it runs).

This is really an integrator-designer concern; Do you really need 24v for the stepper motors? (because of inductance - which is like trying to overcome "inertia" eg the force of a car rolling down a driveway in neutral, the more it gets rolling the harder it will be to stop the car and then reverse the direction, geometric in nature). I looked at the stepper driver spec-sheet and the stepper driver is very good at handling that, and also doing load sensing.

https://www.trinamic.com/products/integ ... mc2660-pa/

Managing the loss of grip in nm on stepping, on a half step, is also a designer-integrator issue,

Are you are really going to be running the printer at extreme speeds and are you going to be red-lining amperage. NO. Would 24v be smoother regardless of speed, perhaps?


With microstepping really going to lose an impactful holding power on the steppers. Nah. There is more force nm than needed for the payload anyway. One of my wish list items was to get rid of the bowden and have the extruder on the hot end; then you have a whole set of integration issues to deal with, because then you are moving around a big mass. I don't want to have the extruder bouncing around in the air either (but some integrators and hobbyists might want that solution).

The special sauce of building 3d printers is integration - do all the design elements work well together? It is a question of tradeoffs and testing.

You can see in the facebook post a slew of things printed on this machine which means that they are happy with testing. Its the best printer they built. To swap out 12v components for 24v components or to step down voltage where needed is no big deal. There is something to be said about standardization.

What printers was SeemeCNC competing with for my FDM dollars; It's not expensive by any means, it is is the sweet spot in terms of cost.


Zortrax m300 - $3900
Ultimaker 3 - $4295
Wasp - $2700
Taz 6 - $2000
Craftbot XL - $1900
Continue to hack my Rostock Max V2 - which has new effector, hot end, extruder - good now I can put a 32 bit board in it
Chinese Delta or Large Platform then hack it - Creality, tevo, flashforge guider
Scratch Build another printer.

I am looking forward to laser sintering when the cost breaks downward; formlabs and then cheaper materials.

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DeltaCon
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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby DeltaCon » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:43 am

geneb wrote:There's currently an active patent (Stratasys I think) on heated chambers. You'll never see a commercial offering from any company other than them until that patent expires.


Really innovative to use technology from 2 centuries ago to keep a small room warm and out of draft... Stupid USA patenting system where this is possible. It is sooooo counterproductive.
I am DeltaCon, I have a delta, my name is Con, I am definitely PRO delta! ;-)
Rostock V2 / E3D V6 / Raymond Style Heatchamber on the way!

PS.: Sorry for the avatar, that's my other hobby!

Mac The Knife
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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby Mac The Knife » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:06 am

3D Platform must not know, or care about Stratsys's claim,,, They offer optional heated enclosures: https://3dplatform.com/configurator/
R-Max V2
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KAS
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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby KAS » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:26 am

Some are saying that the original patent claims the XYZ gantry is located outside the chamber, hence internal wouldn't be infringement.
Who wants to test that theory?


1. A three-dimensional modeling apparatus comprising a heated build chamber in which three-dimensional objects are built, a base located in the build chamber, a dispensing head for dispensing modeling material onto the base, the dispensing head having a modeling material dispensing outlet inside of the build chamber, and an x-y-z gantry coupled to the dispensing head and to the base for generating relative movement in three-dimensions between the dispensing head and the base, characterized in that:

the x-y-z gantry is located external to the build chamber and is separated from the chamber by a deformable thermal insulator.


https://www.google.com/patents/US6722872

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DeltaCon
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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby DeltaCon » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:36 am

Mac The Knife wrote:3D Platform must not know, or care about Stratsys's claim,,, They offer optional heated enclosures: https://3dplatform.com/configurator/

With those prices it could well be that they pay for the patent.
I am DeltaCon, I have a delta, my name is Con, I am definitely PRO delta! ;-)
Rostock V2 / E3D V6 / Raymond Style Heatchamber on the way!

PS.: Sorry for the avatar, that's my other hobby!

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Re: ARTEMIS

Postby Qdeathstar » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:21 pm

30 grand for a FDM printer? LOL WHY EVEN BRING THAT UP. One good thing about deltas is that its pretty simple to design an enclosure for them.


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