Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

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geneb
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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby geneb » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:53 am

626Pilot & Edward, if you'd be interested in writing an "extended calibration" procedure that can start from where my basic calibration ends, I'd be happy to include it in the manual with attribution.

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby edward » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:21 pm

I certainly don't reject the idea of contributing...let's just say that there are one or two things on my list before I would get to that.
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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby 626Pilot » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:19 pm

I would like to have some coherent troubleshooting steps in the wiki, based on the above. I found someone in Troubleshooting who is having a problem similar to mine and I sent a link to this thread. If it works for that person, cool, and if not maybe we can figure out some refinements.

Once there is something coherent and well-structured in the wiki, I'd say just copy and paste it into the manual. There will probably be a bunch of minor changes along that path so I don't know if you'd want to take what's here now.

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby artexmg » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:00 am

626Pilot wrote:I would like to have some coherent troubleshooting steps in the wiki, based on the above. I found someone in Troubleshooting who is having a problem similar to mine and I sent a link to this thread. If it works for that person, cool, and if not maybe we can figure out some refinements.

Once there is something coherent and well-structured in the wiki, I'd say just copy and paste it into the manual. There will probably be a bunch of minor changes along that path so I don't know if you'd want to take what's here now.



626Pilot, what's the link to the wiki? sorry, I'm new here, so I didn't even know there was a wiki!

I'm testing this method, with help of some schematics I draw and a chart (trying to do it repeatable and systematic). If it works, i will report there.

By the way, modifying the height in the tower via the parameters in config.h shouldn't be the same as of psychically adjusting the screws? :-|

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby dpmacri » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:04 am

artexmg wrote:626Pilot, what's the link to the wiki? sorry, I'm new here, so I didn't even know there was a wiki!


http://wiki.seemecnc.com

It's pretty new so there's not a ton out there...yet :-D

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby 626Pilot » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:43 am

artexmg wrote:By the way, modifying the height in the tower via the parameters in config.h shouldn't be the same as of psychically adjusting the screws? :-|

That typo is funny.

Changing the Z tower height in EEPROM and adjusting all the endstop screws in precisely the same way are functionally equivalent. They both tell the printer how many steps it should take to get from the max height to the print surface if it was moving down in a straight line.

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby artexmg » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:39 pm

626Pilot wrote:
artexmg wrote:By the way, modifying the height in the tower via the parameters in config.h shouldn't be the same as of psychically adjusting the screws? :-|

That typo is funny.

Changing the Z tower height in EEPROM and adjusting all the endstop screws in precisely the same way are functionally equivalent. They both tell the printer how many steps it should take to get from the max height to the print surface if it was moving down in a straight line.



Great, I thought that, and that's what my "experiments" had shown so far, but I good to know that from somebody who knows better.

That is PSYCHICALLY GREAT! :-) :-)

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby artexmg » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:12 am

artexmg wrote:
626Pilot wrote:
artexmg wrote:By the way, modifying the height in the tower via the parameters in config.h shouldn't be the same as of psychically adjusting the screws? :-|

That typo is funny.

Changing the Z tower height in EEPROM and adjusting all the endstop screws in precisely the same way are functionally equivalent. They both tell the printer how many steps it should take to get from the max height to the print surface if it was moving down in a straight line.



Great, I thought that (and that's what my "experiments" have shown so far), but it is good to know that from somebody who knows better.

That is PSYCHICALLY GREAT! :-) :-)

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby mcosman » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:16 am

What am I missing? Is the rotation adjustment just tweaking the height of the towers in software to obtain a differential between towers?
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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby cope413 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:56 pm

No, the rotation adjustment tweaks the rotation of the towers :)

Ideally, each tower is perfectly squared to the center of the build plate, and 120 degrees from the other towers. That's not the case because of tolerances and other build factors, and if it's off enough, it affects accuracy. The rotational adjustment fixes that so that the machine knows exactly where it is and where it's supposed to be.
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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby mcosman » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:00 pm

So where in the software does one adjust that. I have been searching through the Arduino config and I'm not seeing it. Sorry for being dense.
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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby cope413 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:26 pm

It's not really just an "adjustment", or at least I don't think it should be. 626 and/or edward have detailed posts about the best way to do this. I would suggest going through their posts before you start adjusting your printer geometry
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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby 626Pilot » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:55 pm

Look for Alpha A, B, and C in the EEPROM. You will see the values 210, 330, and 90. Reducing a number rotates the tower clockwise and increasing it rotates the tower counter-clockwise. You should only need to change the rotation by 1/2 to one degree. I will edit the original post.

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby mrbi11 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:10 pm

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the thread, but I ran into a BIG discrepancy depending on how one gets from point a to b

G28
G0 Z1 F3500
G0 Z0 X-77.94 Y-45 F3500

Above is the manual calibration for the X tower.
It should reach the same physical position with or without the red intermediate vertical move,
but the measurement on my machine is almost a millimeter off vertically- with or without the red Gcode line.

Printing always drops vertically first, to the calibration with 3 steps is closer to printing, and for me yielded much better results.
My avatar is the before shot of a really big brim. The after is a perfect brim.

So whatever constants get thrown in the mix, if you are using the manual calibrations, it may be your calibrations do not reflect
movements during a print.

Although I got variations on all 3 towers, the X tower difference was by far the largest. The other two were less than 0.2 mm.

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby 626Pilot » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:15 pm

mrbi11 wrote:Not to throw a monkey wrench into the thread, but I ran into a BIG discrepancy depending on how one gets from point a to b

Can you rewrite this post? I can't understand what you're saying.

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby mrbi11 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:30 pm

I had huge problems with 1st layers on large prints, even after carefully calibrating per manual.

The manual's calibration in front of X tower is:
G28
G0 Z0 X-77.94 Y-45 F3500

The manuals calibration movement is diagonal.
Prints move down vertically to begin, then move horizontally. Never diagonal.

This is the same calibration, the way prints would do them. Vertical first.
G28
G0 Z1 F3500 ; This moved down vertically before horizontal move
G0 Z0 X-77.94 Y-45 F3500

=======

So what I'm saying is, if you are using the manual's calibration methods, and if your machine is like mine, those calibrations have
NOTHING to do with where the print head will be during a print, given the same coordinates.
They should be the same, but are not.
On my machine (see my avatar picture) the two calibration sequences are almost a millimeter different Z (height.)

So before adjusting any constants, my suggestion is you check the calibration measurements themselves, which on my machine had huge errors.

I spent hours re-calibrating and swapping parts and on and on, till I found the problem was not where I was looking.

It appears to me, the machine is incorrectly moving on large (vertical) diagonal measurements.
So I stopped using (vertical) diagonal movements.

Sorry, I'm not a good writer. I hope that was clearer.

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby 626Pilot » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:42 pm

Oh, I think I understand now. I calibrated my printer like this:

G28
G1 Z5 F5000
G1 Xn Yn F5000

So it moves on Z first, then on X/Y. Then I would lower it by hand to snag the paper.

When the printer starts printing something, it just goes direct on whatever diagonal is necessary. Both ways are functionally equivalent. The calibration circles I print come out fine, even though the printer starts on a diagonal rather than moving Z first and then X/Y.

If your printer is showing a millimeter of error based on whether it moves diagonally or Z first, something is either loose or too tight, possibly your delta arms at the U-joints.

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby mrbi11 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:54 pm

I agree they should be functionally equivalent.

I've spent weeks measuring and tightening and calibrating.

The measurements repeat within 0.1 mm every time.
I can push and pull while its moving, they end the same place.

If the stepper motors end in the same place, the tip should be in the same place.
I'm reasonably sure the stepper motors don't end up at the same spot, or maybe same count is the right term.

It sounds like the calibration method you use is the one I get correct results from.
It would be interesting if you tried the diagonal on you machine, to see if you get a close match.

The default Slicr's first move is to move vertical to Z5.
If yours is going diagonal, you may have customized it. Its in the preamble in printer settings.
Or maybe you dont use slicr.

Have you tried the diagonal calibration move?
I betcha 2 cents it doesnt match. :-)

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby 626Pilot » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:38 pm

What I'm saying is that I calibrate it Z first, then X/Y, but when it prints it moves diagonally, and the results are the same. I use KISSlicer. If the results were different, I would have had to change my calibration to use diagonal moves instead of straight moves.

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby mrbi11 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:04 am

I think we are talking past each other.

When I am talking about diagonal, I mean from top of print volume to calibration point, with mainly z axis travel.
Horizontal diagonal works fine.

I am saying if you go home, g28, then go diagonal to the calibration coordinates, you end up somewhere slightly different
than if you go home, then down, then to the same coordinates.

So when you calibrate the tower points, do you go back to g28, then diagonally back down, or do you
stay at the bottom and move horizontally. If that is what you are doing, that is what on my machine gives accurate results.

And of the 2 ways to calibrate, going vertically down, then horizontal, is what prints do.
They start at the bottom, and move around on the same level.

Horizontal diagonal works fine. Vertical diagonal has errors, at least on my machine.

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby AndThenSome09 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:57 pm

apparently the new Repetier has G29 Auto-Level for Delta, the instructions are on their site anyway for Delta machines. Has anyone experimented with that?
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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby Eaglezsoar » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:07 pm

AndThenSome09 wrote:apparently the new Repetier has G29 Auto-Level for Delta, the instructions are on their site anyway for Delta machines. Has anyone experimented with that?


See here: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2765

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby mrbi11 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:48 pm

I think that link is for this thread...

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby Eaglezsoar » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:31 pm

You are correct. I screwed up that one. Now I can't find the link I meant to send.

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Re: Auto Level - Auto Calibration Talk

Postby edward » Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:42 pm

AndThenSome09 wrote:apparently the new Repetier has G29 Auto-Level for Delta, the instructions are on their site anyway for Delta machines. Has anyone experimented with that?

The section about Z-Probing on the main Repetier website (http://www.repetier.com/documentation/repetier-firmware/z-probing/) has been there for some time, maybe a couple of months. I don't think there has been any significant code changes recently that will have improved upon the results 626 had reported a couple of pages back.

If you are having trouble with your machine, I would encourage you to experiment and report your results ;)
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