Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby Eaglezsoar » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:08 pm

When you say Loctite for the glue are you saying superglue? If this is the case do you recommend the gel over the "runny" types?

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby Generic Default » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:32 pm

Nope, not the gel (although it probably works too). I use the runny loctite stuff. You just fill up the hex hole in the cap screw and then stick the chrome ball into it. Hold it in for at least ten seconds, and it should stay stuck after that. Don't put torque on it for at least a few minutes because the glue needs to cure for a solid connection.
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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby DavidF » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:14 pm

Im not nocking the glue to the stud method, just looking for a better, easier, and more accurate way of doing things.....My model a ford has a hand crank, yes you can start the car with it, but its so much easier to use the electric starter.... :D
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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby barnett » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:31 am

Generic Default wrote:I think you guys are worrying too much about the balls detaching from the effector plate

I'm no mechanical wizard, but I agree here. Mine have held since last spring and I kind of did a mediocre job w/the JB Weld. With a magnet on the other side of the bearing, the cap head screws are held in place nicely as the epoxy sets.

The precision factor plays more in the measurement of how far they stick out of the effector & carriage mounts and also how long the arms are. If this isn't right, then the effector doesn't stay flat as it moves around the bed & the arms could pop off because the magnets can't hold them.

Depending on your effector design, you may be able to test how even they are by just flipping it over on a flat surface. If the bearings don't all touch the surface or the effector isn't flat, then you can adjust (I used washers between the bearing and effector).

You should have a good way to measure the arm length (bearing to bearing) or else you will always wonder about that if the effector isn't staying flat.

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby Maco » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:22 pm

HI every one I found this, I think the price is good and also only 3 point on the effector, what you think?? the only thing I see is the lenghy of the arms that is 244 mm, can we use this ones in the RMAx???

http://spiderbot.eu/products/upgrades/m ... etail.html

Thanks

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby Eaglezsoar » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:32 pm

Maco wrote:HI every one I found this, I think the price is good and also only 3 point on the effector, what you think?? the only thing I see is the lenghy of the arms that is 244 mm, can we use this ones in the RMAx???

http://spiderbot.eu/products/upgrades/m ... etail.html

Thanks

The length of the arms could be problematic, the Max has arms that are 269mm.
The arm length can be adjusted in firmware but I am not sure what the loss of 25mm would do, my supposition would be that the print area would be reduced.
The 3 point effector is also uncharted territory, buy one and change the arm length in the firmware and try it out. It would be interesting to see what the results
would be. It does state that the price is only good for existing customers.

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby Cleveralias » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:51 pm

That spiderbot and its parts are pretty. I might have to look more into them. Did you check out their PEI bed? Sounds interesting; I'll have to research that material. I wonder what are its dimensions. Nice find!

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby dpmacri » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:07 pm

Cleveralias wrote:That spiderbot and its parts are pretty. I might have to look more into them. Did you check out their PEI bed? Sounds interesting; I'll have to research that material. I wonder what are its dimensions. Nice find!


You can get a 12" x 12" sheet that's .03" (0.76mm) from Amazon for $15.35 and prime shipping. A .09" (2.28mm) for $34.26 and 1/8" (3.175mm) for $52.54. Here's the link: http://www.amazon.com/Polyetherimide-Opaque-Off-White-Thickness-Length/dp/B00CPRDDLY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392667494&sr=8-1&keywords=polyetherimide.

I'm thinking of trying it, but wondering if the .03" piece is too thin. One of the comments on the link says that it was RTV'd to the borosilicate glass and doesn't lift up.

Anyone on the forum have any experience with this? I'm mostly printing ABS these days and am really tired of going through glue sticks :-).

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby cope413 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:05 pm

I haven't used the stuff, but I know it works well for ABS and PLA.

Robox machines use it as well.

I would bet you'd have more luck with the 1/8" sheet. I would just use binder clips to hold it to your bed for the sake of simplicity, but if you have clamps, then RTV to glass would probably be fine.
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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby mhackney » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:49 pm

I've been using Ultem/PEI for certain parts in my fly fishing reels for several years so I have a bit of experience with this material in several forms (rods, sheets). Let me share a couple of observations and feedback on comments on things I've read on various forums by folks who were speculating without experience with this material:

Speculations about glass filled(30%) vs not filled: The comments about using glass filled because "the non-filled is too brittle, like Lexan" are true BUT if a thin sheet of non-filled is adhered to a substrate like aluminum, it is a non-issue. There is no need for the higher cost glass filled.

"I plan to use 1/4" PEI so it won't warp." Trust me, an Onyx heated bed with a sheet of 1/4" PEI clamped to it IS going to warp when the Onyx warps on heat up. Clipping it to glass will eliminate this effect. But, 1/4" material is very expensive.

"A sheet of the thin .04" or .03" PEI can to be clamped at it's perimeter to the glass bed" - I have no count that the printed part WILL pull it from the surface, resulting in warped part bottoms.

A sheet of the thin .04" or .03" "glued to a sheet of aluminum is, I believe, the ideal solution. SpiderBot got it right I think. My only comment on their product would be the thickness of the aluminum plate seems a little thin to constrain the warping of the Onyx heated bed. A piece of MIC 6 aluminum in 3/16" thickness is perfectly flat, stays flat on thermal cycling and can be heated quickly with an Onyx run at 24V.

I have a piece of the non-filled .03" material on the way and I plan to adhere it to one of my aluminum heat dissipators with RTV and cure it under pressure in my press. That should keep it nice and flat.

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Loctite Gel for the win

Postby gestalt73 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:56 am

I've used JBQuick, and JBWeld, and both held just fine -- until I started experimenting with a heated build chamber. Then the heat must slightly change the diameter of the bearings or something, because I'd lose one every couple of days.

I switched them all out with Loctite Gel (Loctite Super Glue Ultra Gel Control), and I haven't lost one since, and I think I'm going on about 100 hours of print time with all Loctite secured bearings in a heated build chamber (hefty bag).

I did the same thing as mentioned above, filled the hex hole, press fit, and then cooked them for about an hour on the heated build plate.

ymmv, but so far it's worked perfectly.

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby Cleveralias » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:24 am

dpmacri wrote:You can get a 12" x 12" sheet that's .03" (0.76mm) from Amazon for $15.35 and prime shipping. A .09" (2.28mm) for $34.26 and 1/8" (3.175mm) for $52.54. Here's the link: http://www.amazon.com/Polyetherimide-Opaque-Off-White-Thickness-Length/dp/B00CPRDDLY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392667494&sr=8-1&keywords=polyetherimide.

I'm thinking of trying it, but wondering if the .03" piece is too thin. One of the comments on the link says that it was RTV'd to the borosilicate glass and doesn't lift up.

Anyone on the forum have any experience with this? I'm mostly printing ABS these days and am really tired of going through glue sticks :-).


Having now looked into it a bit, I'm intrigued enough to try it out. I just bought the .09" in 12" x 12". I'm almost done rebuilding my printer and expect I'll be able to give it a trial by the weekend at latest. Perhaps I'll post results to a new topic if it hasn't been done by then so others can find it.

Sounds like cool stuff.

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby bdjohns1 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:52 am

Random aside - I ended up having to scale the 12-pack of rod ends to 107% to get them to fit the 3/8" tube and magnets. I tried boring out a set of 100% scaled ones, but I must not have had the touch to get them from 0.365" to 0.375" ID.

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby Eaglezsoar » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:32 am

Cleveralias wrote:
dpmacri wrote:You can get a 12" x 12" sheet that's .03" (0.76mm) from Amazon for $15.35 and prime shipping. A .09" (2.28mm) for $34.26 and 1/8" (3.175mm) for $52.54. Here's the link: http://www.amazon.com/Polyetherimide-Opaque-Off-White-Thickness-Length/dp/B00CPRDDLY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392667494&sr=8-1&keywords=polyetherimide.

I'm thinking of trying it, but wondering if the .03" piece is too thin. One of the comments on the link says that it was RTV'd to the borosilicate glass and doesn't lift up.

Anyone on the forum have any experience with this? I'm mostly printing ABS these days and am really tired of going through glue sticks :-).


Having now looked into it a bit, I'm intrigued enough to try it out. I just bought the .09" in 12" x 12". I'm almost done rebuilding my printer and expect I'll be able to give it a trial by the weekend at latest. Perhaps I'll post results to a new topic if it hasn't been done by then so others can find it.

Sounds like cool stuff.

We have a 10 page topic on PEI here: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=4336

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby Eaglezsoar » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:21 am

I am looking for someone who completed the Xnaron arms and used the geared stepper motor for the extruder.
Specifically I am looking for the steps per mm that you used to drive the geared stepper. Thanks to anyone who
would be able to share the number that they used.

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby Cleveralias » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:50 pm

Eaglezsoar wrote:I am looking for someone who completed the Xnaron arms and used the geared stepper motor for the extruder.
Specifically I am looking for the steps per mm that you used to drive the geared stepper. Thanks to anyone who
would be able to share the number that they used.


I did run a geared extruder for a while but unfortunately I don't believe I wrote down the final number. Gearing was 1:5.182, so all I know for sure is that I used 478.82 as my starting point... IIRC the observed value was closer to 470.

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby Eaglezsoar » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:11 pm

Cleveralias wrote:
Eaglezsoar wrote:I am looking for someone who completed the Xnaron arms and used the geared stepper motor for the extruder.
Specifically I am looking for the steps per mm that you used to drive the geared stepper. Thanks to anyone who
would be able to share the number that they used.


I did run a geared extruder for a while but unfortunately I don't believe I wrote down the final number. Gearing was 1:5.182, so all I know for sure is that I used 478.82 as my starting point... IIRC the observed value was closer to 470.


Thank you, that is a good starting point.

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby xnaron » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:42 pm

Eaglezsoar wrote:I am looking for someone who completed the Xnaron arms and used the geared stepper motor for the extruder.
Specifically I am looking for the steps per mm that you used to drive the geared stepper. Thanks to anyone who
would be able to share the number that they used.


It depends if you are using the 22 or 24 tooth gear. For the 24 tooth gear I am running 484 steps at 1/16 stepping.
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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby xnaron » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:45 pm

I need to catch up on this thread :) I had the "notify me when a reply is posted" not activated. :(
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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby Christian79 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:53 pm

I need to try this type of setup eventually. I noticed that my stock setup has a bit of play in it and I even shimmed it using 25 micron shims to insure a tight fit. I don't worry too much about it now because I run slow and still have a stock hotend. However, when I eventually go all metal and have 2+ hotends, the extra weight and the little bit of slop will add up.

Xnaron, Do you have someplace where you have posted pics of your setup (photo bucket for example) or only in this thread? I would like to study it more closely.

I also wonder if the guys at SeeMeCNC are going to go this route. I would pay $$$$ for a nice aluminum CNC solution to this. I really like what Werner Berry did with the BerryBot, but I do not currently have those kind of tools.

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby xnaron » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:54 pm

Gentlemen. Grease your balls! Now that sounds awkward. ;) I have a lot of time on the mag arms and I wanted to mention that putting a small amount of vaseline on each ball will really help to smooth out movement and reduce friction. I am still on my first set of arms and I can see no visible wear and they are working just as well as the first day I put them on. Also I have never had a ball come off. I have had one back out on the threads. A little CA on the threads will fix that.
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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby xnaron » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:56 pm

Christian79 wrote:
Xnaron, Do you have someplace where you have posted pics of your setup (photo bucket for example) or only in this thread? I would like to study it more closely.



I will post more pics on the first post of this thread...
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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby mhackney » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:59 pm

:oops:

OMG! Wow!

Do you think Bag Balm would work? :)

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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby xnaron » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 pm

mhackney wrote::oops:

OMG! Wow!

Do you think Bag Balm would work? :)


Lol... I don't think anything bad ever came out of Vermont so I vote yes!
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Re: Xnaron Printable Magnetic u-joint option for Rostock Max

Postby bubbasnow » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:16 pm

xnaron wrote:
mhackney wrote::oops:

OMG! Wow!

Do you think Bag Balm would work? :)


Lol... I don't think anything bad ever came out of Vermont so I vote yes!


except for ted bundy


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