Making the Rostock Max quieter

[Flateric]

I've done a bunch more research and I am now convinced that these would benefit any 3D printer and mounting steppers to it.

I can only find 1 nema17 sized anti-vibration mount in my parts bin so this set me off on a internet quest to see where they can be sourced from.

They are not as well known as I had expected it seems. But the companies and industries that do use them generally employ their use for anything involving highly accurate positioning or placement operations. The use of the motor vibration damper (their official name) is even used for super smooth servo applications. Especially in the dental and medical equipment where accuracy is critical.

This cannot be a bad thing to add to a 3D printer clearly.

Here is a link with some information regarding them and they can also be purchased at the same link. I have used them personally on larger sized all aluminium and all steel CNC mill designs on up to nema34 sized motors. But only because I happened to have salvaged the damper from surplus equipment I had on hand and figured why not. So, just as a test I removed the damper from my CNC all aluminium moving gantry setup and the amount of noise and vibration difference is very substantial. Shockingly so actually. For a little part that does not really alter the final design by it's inclusion I will be including them in all my future stepper based creations.

http://www.astrosyn.com/section.php?xSec=44&xPage=1

[Eaglezsoar]

I've done a bunch more research and I am now convinced that these would benefit any 3D printer and mounting steppers to it.

I can only find 1 nema17 sized anti-vibration mount in my parts bin so this set me off on a internet quest to see where they can be sourced from.

They are not as well known as I had expected it seems. But the companies and industries that do use them generally employ their use for anything involving highly accurate positioning or placement operations. The use of the motor vibration damper (their official name) is even used for super smooth servo applications. Especially in the dental and medical equipment where accuracy is critical.

This cannot be a bad thing to add to a 3D printer clearly.

Here is a link with some information regarding them and they can also be purchased at the same link. I have used them personally on larger sized all aluminium and all steel CNC mill designs on up to nema34 sized motors. But only because I happened to have salvaged the damper from surplus equipment I had on hand and figured why not. So, just as a test I removed the damper from my CNC all aluminium moving gantry setup and the amount of noise and vibration difference is very substantial. Shockingly so actually. For a little part that does not really alter the final design by it's inclusion I will be including them in all my future stepper based creations.

http://www.astrosyn.com/section.php?xSec=44&xPage=1

They do not list the United States as a country they sell to. Something like this should probably be purchased by a group of forum members who are interested and bought in bulk, see if they will send that many to the United States and then redistributed to the interested parties. Perhaps Seemecnc.com would be interested in purchasing these in bulk. My other concern is the currency conversion can make these somewhat costly. From looking at the link you provided, it
appears that the mounting of the step motor is only to the damper so there are two screws holding the step motor in place, is this correct?

[theverant]

I think you might find a bigger noise drop by tuning the acceleration settings. With my machine, most of the noise is the motor singing, not from vibrations travelling through the machine. I think the motor noise I'm hearing is due to the constant speed changes. I know on the MBI Replicator it sounded very similar (but even louder I think) until I upgraded to Sailfish firmware with acceleration and now that machine is almost silent. I'm not sure how acceleration works in the Marlin or Repetier firmwares - maybe something to look into?

I'm planning to put an enclosure around my printer, anyway, so I doubt I'll hear much from it after that.

[dmlonestar]

Reading the thread reminded me that I had seen "dampers" offered while sourcing steppers for my CNC build.

I found these guys to be quite helpful and they have a different solution for dampening which might be of interest: http://www.linengineering.com/contents/ ... ories.aspx

[theverant]

Reading the thread reminded me that I had seen "dampers" offered while sourcing steppers for my CNC build.

Sound issues aside, I wonder if those dampers might help reduce vibration and give better quality prints?

[Flateric]

Reading the thread reminded me that I had seen "dampers" offered while sourcing steppers for my CNC build.

Sound issues aside, I wonder if those dampers might help reduce vibration and give better quality prints?

This is actually the primary purpose of them.

A dental mill has a claimed accuracy of 4 microns, ya I know wow. They all use the dampers on all motors.

And I do agree we are not at the 4 micron level....ever little bit should help, right?

They also help prevent resonant step loss and skipping of some type that was way over my head, lol.

[Highcooley]

Has anyone tried something like this:
http://www.ebay.ch/itm/Stepper-Motor-NE ... _500wt_956?

I bought a set for my old 3D printer but never used them. I might give them a shot one day on the rostock. However, right at the moment I am not very keen on disassembling my printer

[Av8r RC]

I tried that on my Sumpod. Because the wood frame of the printer seemed to be almost a speaker box the way it amplified the sounds the motors made. I just made a template in SW, then printed it out. And used some cork gasket material from AutoZone. I only put 1 layer of it down (kinda thin at 0.062 thick). It helped but was still loud. I've been meaning to take it apart and add some more, just never got around to it.

FWIW the MAX is about 1/2 to 2/3 quieter than my sumpod.

If you all want I can post up the file.

[bvandiepenbos]

I to think my Rostock is annoyingly loud.
Awhile back I laser cut some 2mm thick rubber motor washers but have not tried them yet.

~*Brian

[aehM_Key]

Hi Brian! What do you have under the heads of the screws, which mount the stepper?

[Eaglezsoar]

I to think my Rostock is annoyingly loud.
Awhile back I laser cut some 2mm thick rubber motor washers but have not tried them yet.

~*Brian

Trick_Laser-Rostock_MAX-motor_vibration_isolation_washer-1.jpg

Trick_Laser-Rostock_MAX-motor_vibration_isolation_washer-2.jpg

Would you be interested in selling 4 of these, they look like they have potential.
Carl

[bvandiepenbos]

Hi Brian! What do you have under the heads of the screws, which mount the stepper?

either rubber washers I cut from same rubber with a steel washer under screw head, or nothing ... not sure.
rubber washer may let motor move to much.
without may still transmit some of the stepper noise to frame.

have not had time to try it.

~*Brian

[bvandiepenbos]

[/quote]
Would you be interested in selling 4 of these, they look like they have potential.
Carl[/quote]


hey Eaglezsoar, if you have time fairly soon to test them out and post your results I would mail them to you at no cost.
I just don't have the time anytime soon.
If they work I would sell them on my Rostock Accesories web site www.tricklaser.com
You will need longer screws, if I remember correctly the OEM ones are 3mm X 10mm. So you will need 12mm or 15mm if putting rubber washer under head of screw. Although the rubber washer under screw head will likely allow motor to move to much.

Email your address to me at [email protected] if you are interested.
I would like to know before MRRF March 15-17 so I can cut some and bring along.
(Midwest Rep Rap Festival in Elkhart, IN) http://midwestreprapfest.org
Are you attending?

~*Brian

[Eaglezsoar]

See my email to you.

Carl

[astroboy907]

Hey all, noob to these forums. I don't have a CNC but I am working on a project involving some steppers and machined aluminum.. I would love for it to run as quiet as it can (for the least $$). I am thinking of buying a couple of those astrosyn dampers, but I don't need 10 of them (yet..). If anyone knows where i could just find a couple NEMA 17 dampers (2), that would be amazing!

Also if anyone has them from this thread it would be really helpful to me to know how much noise they dampen. I was just going to use rubber washers, but now IDK. Thanks in advance
-Astroboy907

EDIT: I am based in Idaho if that helps with location.

[Jimustanguitar]

There was a post the other day (revived post from longer ago) about using cork gasket material as a pad under the stepper motors. I installed some on mine, but have not given it a true test yet.

You could wrap the bodies of the motors with something like dynamat, as long as you were sure it wouldn't cause a heat issue.

I'm also told that the new repetier firmware is considerably quieter than the marlin versions before it.


The main thing I see still creating noise is the belt itself. It's directly coupled to the motor that's vibrating (the steps are little vibrations even when it's working normally) and the belts are vibrating like a guitar string... Not sure how to address this one. I'm not displeased with the noise though, I think mine is quiet enough.

[Polygonhell]

If you take the motor off the machine, you'll find they don't make a lot of noise even when running at speed.
The bulk of the noise is the resonance of the base, and the belts are probably the next largest contributor.
Really you want to isolate the fastening hardware from the motor, the cork gasket is probably better than nothing, but the screws will still be transferring vibration from the motors to the base.

[JohnStack]

PolygonHell is onto something. The base is almost a soundbox - with 1/3 being completely empty on mine.

Mine was sitting on some cardboard on a solid side table. This weekend, I purchased a Whelan workbench from Costco. I think the DBs doubled since it is now bouncing off of a butcher board surface.

Time for some of that non-expanding foam insulation! Not!

[bvandiepenbos]

I just finally installed the rubber motor insulating pads I laser cut months ago.
put rubber washers under screw heads also.
should be able to test in the next few days and report my findings.
(see pictures earlier in this thread)

[Flateric]

I have concluded my testing with the dampers and the sound difference is truely amazing and I do feel that the print quality is smoother as well. I scanvenged mine from older electronics, photocopiers, scanners etc.

Here is a youtube video for ya.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8GYdEQIuU0[/youtube]

I would say that this upgrade ranks as a close second to arm upgrades in overall improvement to you machine and your living with the machine.

I have to constantly glance at the print just to be sure it has not stalled since it makes no sounds anymore.

If I print slow, I can actually hear the plastic being extruded out of the tip on the hot end, ya no kidding.

[Eaglezsoar]

I have concluded my testing with the dampers and the sound difference is truely amazing and I do feel that the print quality is smoother as well. I scanvenged mine from older electronics, photocopiers, scanners etc.


I would say that this upgrade ranks as a close second to arm upgrades in overall improvement to you machine and your living with the machine.

I have to constantly glance at the print just to be sure it has not stalled since it makes no sounds anymore.

If I print slow, I can actually hear the plastic being extruded out of the tip on the hot end, ya no kidding.

The damper will push the motor back a fair amount. There is no problem with the shaft not being long enough to line up the belt pulley with the idler?

[Polygonhell]

Now all we need is a place to source the dampers in the US.
I was tempted just to buy some motors with the dampers on off of ebay, but that seems like it's a bit excessive.

[astroboy907]

So no one has a source for dampers in the US? I've sent an email to Astrosyn to see if they will sell me a smaller number of mounts, but they have not replied as of yet.

I'm building myself a pan and tilt motion control rig for timelapses, trying to find out the best way to make it quiet- does a setup like this sound ok to anyone else?

Have the motor mounted with a cork/rubber gasket or an astrosyn dampener, with nylon screws and rubber washers under the screw heads?
Sorry to intrude upon your guys forum (lol I want a 3D printer) but it would be helpful if anyone knew if this would really help reduce vibration and resonance with a NEMA 17...

[Polygonhell]

Gaskets and rubber washers will still leave the screws coupled to the base through the outside of the screw. The dampers remove that coupling.

[astroboy907]

So getting a damper would surely help the most, apart from one of those shaft mounted ones.

I have contacted astrosyn and they are somewhat willing to sell me a low quantity, shipping is killer though. However there seems to be some interest for them here... Is anyone willing to buy a few of these dampers off me if I buy the minimum amount? They'd probably be around $5 USD a piece (not sure about shipping yet). I am located in Idaho, so the midwest would get cheaper/faster shipping.

I'd take 3 so there would be a max of 7 NEMA 17 dampers.