Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

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BrainSlugs83
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Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby BrainSlugs83 » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:28 am

So, I broke the damn thing...

I tried to print PLA with no cooling, and well... it sprung a leak is the best way to put it -- didn't visibly damage anything that I could see, but plastic is oozing out of it from somewhere... -- switched back to ABS, and it's still oozing. Took it apart, and well.. it's coated in a glue made of PLA and ABS now... and while chipping at that crap to get it apart, I kind of broke off the thermistor wiring.... and that fucker is cemented in there with stove glue or whatever...

So, I need a new hot end -- I'm looking at the E3D-V6 and E3D-V6 lite, but... will that work with the rest of my cold end? -- I have the original Steve's / Wade's Extruder / whatever that came with the H-1.0. Will I need a new X carriage or just an adapter? Or what? -- can I made the adapter out of wood? or does anyone have the .STLs that I can just get printed from Shapeways or something?

Thanks guys, any help is much appreciated! :-)
--Mikey

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Re: Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby ccavanaugh » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:41 pm

Not sure how well it will fit with the Steve's extruder, but you might consider going with a bowden setup to take the mass of the x-carriage. With a bowden setup, you may get by with a wood adapter easily. I believe the Steve's extruder can be modified to work as a bowden as well.

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Re: Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby BrainSlugs83 » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:28 pm

I've heard some bad things about bodens, like they ooze a lot more than regular extruders, etc.

Do you know of anyone that has modded their H1 for a boden setup and posted about it? -- Would be interesting to see what they came up with.

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Re: Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby ccavanaugh » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:48 pm

I don't know of anyone, but considering most all Deltas/Rostock Max are using bowden with good success, I would not be too worried.

It just takes a bit more tuning with retraction and many forum members have posted their success stories.

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Re: Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby Polygonhell » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:10 pm

I wouldn't bother with a bowden setup on an H1.
I can't remember how the H1 hotend is mounted, but you will minimally need some sort of adapter if you go with any hotend that isn't like the original. You might want to take a picture of the existing mount and post it here. Usually I'd print an adapter, but you'll have to be more inventive.
I also wouldn't spend a ton of money on something like an E3DV6, to print most of the high temp plastics you'll need a heated bed, the E3DV6 Lite is certainly an option, I'd also consider an original JHead.

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Re: Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby Eric » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:12 pm

Obviously, the first step is to decide what hot-end you want. Bowden is certainly an option, but it may not be worth the effort on this printer. The weight of the effector is not nearly as critical on this style printer as it is on a delta-style printer.

The bottom mounting plate for Steve's Extruder has two posts with captive-nut indents that are available for hot-end mounting. The minimum you need to make is an appropriate plate that has a U-slot for one of the matching slots on the hot-end and screw-holes for those posts. Yes, it can be made out of wood if you want. Search for "j-head mounting plates" for various images of what I'm talking about. Or you can buy one of the commercial plates and drill new holes if required.

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Re: Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby BrainSlugs83 » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:49 pm

Polygonhell wrote:I can't remember how the H1 hotend is mounted, but you will minimally need some sort of adapter if you go with any hotend that isn't like the original. You might want to take a picture of the existing mount and post it here. Usually I'd print an adapter, but you'll have to be more inventive.

Yeah, I'm thinking of using plywood, and just cutting it to shape. Sure, I'll post some pictures.

Here's what I've been able to scour from the 'nets:
SeeMeCNC H-1 Hot End
Extruder Barrel Assembly
Hot End Holder

Groove Mounting Plate for E3D-V6 (plastic)
Groove Mounting Plate for J-Head (aluminum)

Polygonhell wrote:I also wouldn't spend a ton of money on something like an E3DV6, to print most of the high temp plastics you'll need a heated bed, the E3DV6 Lite is certainly an option, I'd also consider an original JHead.

I have a heated bed. -- I can only get it up to about 90 degrees C (due to convection cooling, it will get hotter if covered, but cools rapidly), but I think if I up the voltage, I should be able to get it hotter and sustain the heat.

Is the E3D-v6 a J-Head type? -- What do you think of the J-head at hotends.com? -- It looks like it uses the same mounting bracket as the E3D-v6 -- is that a common mounting style now? Are there dimensions available somewhere? -- Is this how all the hot ends are, or ...? -- I'm not seeing many other styles -- everything seems to just have a lip at the top and slide in or so?

The bottom mounting plate for Steve's Extruder has two posts with captive-nut indents that are available for hot-end mounting. The minimum you need to make is an appropriate plate that has a U-slot for one of the matching slots on the hot-end and screw-holes for those posts. Yes, it can be made out of wood if you want. Search for "j-head mounting plates" for various images of what I'm talking about. Or you can buy one of the commercial plates and drill new holes if required.

I think you're right -- though, I'm worried, it might sit too low there (that's kind of the close to the bottom of the normal print head, and it would be the top of the J-head right?) -- with my heated bed, I think that will give me even less Z-axis... -- but, it might be the way I gotta go... -- if I do it that way, I think the only thing I gotta worry about is fitting everything in between the bars that the X gantry slides on....

I wonder... maybe I can make an adapter that goes there... but has a block of wood that comes up -- and the plate the J-head slides into can sit higher.... that might work.... -- need to make sure a fan can still cool it... but, I think I'm on to something here... this could work.

EDIT: Scratch that -- Those screw joints don't actually come all that low, they're pretty snug against the main plate -- I guess all I would need is an extended teflon tube for my new hotend. Here take a look at these pics I just took (can't find the model, sorry): H-1 X-Gantry Plate.

EDIT 2: Found some dimensional drawings of the J-Heads / Mounting Plates: J-Head Mounting Plate Technical Drawings with Dimensions.
Also, this adapter looks pretty cool -- maybe after I get something going with wood, I'll print a new X-gantry plate that the J-Head just fits into, and doesn't even need an adapter -- something like this could be cool: J-Head plate mounting hot end prusa mendel.

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Re: Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby Polygonhell » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:38 am

The hotends.com JHead is the original slot mounted hotend, I like them, I own 3 of them, two 1.75mm and a 3mm, for printing PLA they are hard to beat.
I have several E3D's, and I didn't have good luck with them, I have one V5 and a Kraken which are great hotends, but I also have a V4 and a V5 which won't print PLA no matter what you do with them. I have 3 V6-Lite heated SS sections for use with a Diamond hotend, I've been impressed with those so far, but I haven't spent a lot of time with them yet (and the price on the V6-Lite is hard to beat). I don't own a standard V6.
I also like Arcol hotends and the derived Budaschnozzle, but they aren't cheap and use a different mounting mechanism. I've also heard very good things about the UBIS hotend from printrbot, but I haven't used one personally.

RichRap reviewed a number of them for one of the reprap magazine issues, I thought it was a good review with the caveat that samples of 1 can be a bit misleading.

You want to stick to tested designs with hotends, there are a lot of cheap copied JHead that won't print well, there are a lot of E3D copies too. There are a lot of critical dimensions on a hotend and you can't measure them on a picture.

I personally wouldn't invest too much into an H1, they were well designed machines based on the Huxley design, but the design itself is pretty limiting, at some point you'll likely want to upgrade. I gutted mine for parts at some point and threw what was left away.

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Re: Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby BrainSlugs83 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:47 pm

Polygonhell wrote:The hotends.com JHead is the original slot mounted hotend, I like them, I own 3 of them, two 1.75mm and a 3mm, for printing PLA they are hard to beat.
I have several E3D's, and I didn't have good luck with them, I have one V5 and a Kraken which are great hotends, but I also have a V4 and a V5 which won't print PLA no matter what you do with them.

Are they cooled? -- with a fan? -- that's basically how I broke my extruder, was trying to print PLA without cooling it, and ... well, now it leaks from somewhere. -- It printed ABS just fine. -- I asked because it looks like the V5 doesn't come with a fan by default, but the V6 does.

PolygonHell wrote:You want to stick to tested designs with hotends, there are a lot of cheap copied JHead that won't print well, there are a lot of E3D copies too. There are a lot of critical dimensions on a hotend and you can't measure them on a picture.
That's true -- for now, I did order a cheap ass clone of the V5 from Amazon (cringe), but it was ~$12.50 and had free 2-day shipping with my prime membership -- so it's more of a stop gap than anything else -- I plan to upgrade to a real hot end soon. (It was literally the only hot end I could find that had a 2-day shipping option.)

Polygonhell wrote:I have 3 V6-Lite heated SS sections for use with a Diamond hotend, I've been impressed with those so far, but I haven't spent a lot of time with them yet (and the price on the V6-Lite is hard to beat). I don't own a standard V6.
I also like Arcol hotends and the derived Budaschnozzle, but they aren't cheap and use a different mounting mechanism. I've also heard very good things about the UBIS hotend from printrbot, but I haven't used one personally.

RichRap reviewed a number of them for one of the reprap magazine issues, I thought it was a good review with the caveat that samples of 1 can be a bit misleading.
Nice. I'll keep that in mind (as I plan to upgrade and not stick with the piece of crap I ordered.)

Polygonhell wrote:I personally wouldn't invest too much into an H1, they were well designed machines based on the Huxley design, but the design itself is pretty limiting, at some point you'll likely want to upgrade. I gutted mine for parts at some point and threw what was left away.
That's basically my plan as well -- most of the things I've added on or done extra can be converted to the next printer I build (and I plan to use the H1 to print the parts for it). The hot end, I think, I will be able to keep -- right? -- seems like the most straight forward thing to harvest anyway -- as well as the stepper motors and most of the electronics, including the capacitive bed leveling sensor that I added to it... -- I think about the only thing I won't be able to keep is the heated bed ('cause you know, it'll be too fucking small).

What kind of printer/machine did you build next? -- I'm thinking either a current generation reprap -- or maybe just a big ass custom repstrap, with a plywood body or something -- to make it more rigid and useful as a milling machine as well as a 3d printer... -- I'm thinking I should also be able to print some enclosures for anti backlash nuts (maybe something like this: http://www.instructables.com/id/3D-printed-CNC-mill/step6/Anti-backlash-nut/), etc.

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Re: Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby Polygonhell » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:03 pm

The H1 was my first printer, I replaced it with a Mendal Max 1.5, and then went on this phase where I pretty much designed and built printers using every X/Y/Z mechanism I thought might be interesting to try.
About half way through that the Rostock Max was on Kickstarter, and I purchased one.
I have 5 working printers currently, I use the Max predominantly, but I'm not completely sold that delta bots are better. Of the many mechanisms I tried I like the Ultimaker/Etchasketch XY mechanism for printers best. Having said that almost any mechanism will work if it's well designed and assembled.

On the upgrade side if you can live with the size restrictions I did hear very good things about the Printrbot Play, but again I have no personal experience.

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Re: Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby Eric » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:45 pm

Order some cooling fans...you'll want them on whatever you build next anyway, and you can use one on the H1 until then.

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Re: Recommend a new hot end for my H-1.0?

Postby BrainSlugs83 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:39 pm

Polygonhell wrote:The H1 was my first printer, I replaced it with a Mendal Max 1.5, and then went on this phase where I pretty much designed and built printers using every X/Y/Z mechanism I thought might be interesting to try.
About half way through that the Rostock Max was on Kickstarter, and I purchased one.
I have 5 working printers currently, I use the Max predominantly, but I'm not completely sold that delta bots are better. Of the many mechanisms I tried I like the Ultimaker/Etchasketch XY mechanism for printers best. Having said that almost any mechanism will work if it's well designed and assembled.

On the upgrade side if you can live with the size restrictions I did hear very good things about the Printrbot Play, but again I have no personal experience.


Nice, yeah, I've heard good things about the Ultimaker, and the X/Y gantry thing is certainly cool -- I think Tom (the german dude on YouTube) did a video showing how it worked -- I was pretty surprised by how weird it was.

Also, I'd never heard of the Mendelmax until you just mentioned it -- I did some searching and wow, that looks cool -- plus there are kits available on ebay for less than what we paid for our H-1 kits, nice. -- I might take a look at building one of those next, it seems like it would be very rigid and thus useful for milling as well as printing, and that's very appealing to me.

Eric wrote:Order some cooling fans...you'll want them on whatever you build next anyway, and you can use one on the H1 until then.

Oooooh yeah. The first thing I'm going to do is strap some fans on there -- probably zip tie them somehow -- and then printing a new mounting plate that has a fan holder on it will be one of the first things I print!


EDIT: Wait, when you say etchasketch, do you mean, like an H-BOT design? -- like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei4lPk_aM9Y -- the one I was thinking of is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzF96Arz9cA&t=240.


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