New carriages are available!

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eigenbot
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby eigenbot » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:28 pm

I changed the carriage width, but it did not help my problem. With all three towers and the center at 0 +/- .03 mm, the head was .37 mm (+/- 0.02 mm) above the plate at each spot between the towers, but now it is 0.25 mm above the plate between two sets of towers and 0.5 mm above the plate between the X and Y towers (not sure why they are no longer all the same - maybe I pushed something else out of alignment?)

If I read correctly from this thread: http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4868, making the carriage width larger brought the mid-tower points down. So I think making the carriage width smaller should have the opposite effect, and not be beneficial for my problem? It also sounds like shims were part of the solution for Jimustanguitar - should I try that over changing the diagonal rod to avoid altering the scale of my prints?

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby AlphaLima » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:12 pm

Awesome. Just got them installed and already like how they feel compared to the original wood ones. And since i was throwing my old calibration out the window i took the opportunity to add some TrickLaser CF arms, and going to go the hardware store and upgrade the bed wiring to a thicker gauge, then start all over on the calibration.

Although i just realized im an idiot and forgot to use the email code :oops:

Edit: Also, the end stop screws seem far looser than the old model. I can turn them by hand, without them being thumbscrews. Hopefully they change on their own.

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby Simages » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:46 pm

PartDaddy wrote:Ok, after further review, it does decrease at the edge of the heated bed between the towers. And slightly increase at the towers. So, the print area is slightly smaller with 269 mm arms (my oversight). Benefits of the IM new carriage include better rigidity through tighter ball bearings and constant force spring arm tensioners. The current acetal universal joint design with washer face works really smooth against the axle mounts. The machined R4 bearing sleeves roll more smooth than the 608 bearing sleeves.
"The cat's outta the bag" Our goals for our kits are price/performance, aesthetics second. The boss design on the carriage, which is used to fasten the axles mounts, also accepts an acetal ball joint mount (looks like a bar-bell). The future arms will be longer and cup the balls. We're working on that now. A new platform (not finished) will have the same boss design to accept the axle mount or ball mount. These will be out later this year.
Here's an assembly PDF of the new carriage. Files on our seemecnc github under machine_elements
https://github.com/seemecnc/Machine_Ele ... dapter.pdf

It would have been nice to have that pdf when I installed mine, took a bit but figured it out. I replaced my original carriages because one was always loose and it didn't line up correctly until I drilled new screw holes. I'm very pleased with the New carriages for sure, but I should have left well enough alone.

Now I have to solve the problem of losing my Z height, homing moves down and the Orion will not connect to my iMac or windows machine. Something is just not right.....

Fixed the homing issue by loading the EEPROM.... I had to post in Troubleshooting for the Z height recalibration issue. viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8831

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby lumpy_potato » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:16 pm

PartDaddy wrote:Ok, after further review, it does decrease at the edge of the heated bed between the towers. And slightly increase at the towers. So, the print area is slightly smaller with 269 mm arms (my oversight).


Would that mean that, in the future, 270mm arms would bring things back into spec? Or something along those lines.

AlphaLima wrote:Edit: Also, the end stop screws seem far looser than the old model. I can turn them by hand, without them being thumbscrews. Hopefully they change on their own.


It seems like once the screws cut into the cheapskate there is a bit of a loss of friction there. I'm not really sure how to improve that - I would possibly suggest that once things are calibrated, to do what I've seen them do on lug-nuts for MTA bus tires - add a bit of white-out to track where it was when it was calibrated, and check periodically to see if it has budged.

On that - the plastic is soft enough where you can see the screw cut into it as you push in. Is it possible that over time repeated endstop touches will slowly push the adjustment screw in further than it should be?

As far as concerns about offsets - might this be entirely resolved by designing an axle-holder that seats the axle in the same position as the previous cheapskates? So while the new carriage is smaller overall, the axle holder would be the proper distance from the rail.

I have to replace one of the GT2 pulleys but this labor day weekend i'm hoping to put everything together - am a little lost on exactly what needs to be 'fixed' in EEPROM/firmware

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby PartDaddy » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:57 pm

The future arm injection mold is on the bench right now. It's a ball cup design with a 290mm center to center length. It does bring the diameter back and makes it less sensitive when printing to the edge of the print area.

I have tested the first carriage for over a year and haven't haven't noticed any problems with the limit screw adjustment. However, I'll look at our machines and carriages again carefully to check the fit and function of those limit screws.

The carriages released are from a third injection mold because I wasn't happy with the first two molds I designed. Primarily how the bearings fit and how the halves fit together.

As for those limit screws, their days are numbered. The probe will eliminate any need for them. A new machine build in the future will self calibrate completely in just a few minutes (yes: level, Z, and horizontal radius automagically). We should have this by year end. Testing stuff note. Beside probes being standard on all our machines (including the little Eris), we'll make a reverse compatible probe kit as well. :)
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby lumpy_potato » Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:09 am

That' will be a dream come true in a lot of ways :D

One note: With the current axle holder, it is the exact right width to fit the TrickLaser CF arms when removed from the original carriages (~36cm as I vaaguely recall). If you guys can stick to that it will make life easier for those with the TrickLaser arms, or a similar setup where lock nuts are used to keep the arms in place (otherwise it's a lot of re and de tightening to get things to match between the carriage and the effector platform.)

In any case, for now, Horizontal Radius to 140 to start, leave the rest alone, and see how things go from there?

Also, for the question re: a part to push the axle holder 'out' to be the same distance from the rail as originally - would that be feasible? Either by SeeMeCNC or someone here. I'm unsure how much inaccuracy it will introduce, realistically.

UPDATE: So I'm stalled on installing these because it seems that the bearings do not ride the rails cleanly once both halves are secured. They are falling at the same rate, after I found that adjusting the screws connecting the two halves had a noticeable effect on the rate of fall. I can clearly feel 'ridges' in movement up and down, areas where the wheels seem to not turn as cleanly. It seems to happen uniformly to the bearings on the tension-arm side. They've been trimmed, but all the wheels had at least some additional plastic deposits from what I assume was the injection molding or the mold-removal process. The two halves don't seem to fit intuitively - there is a little ridge on the rim of inner shell that I feel should snap into the outer shell to make sure they connect cleanly, but I cannot for the life of me get them to slip inside of each other. Are they intended to just sit against each other rather than snapping 'in' the same way the bearing fittings snap in?

Right now the plan is to trim / sand the wheels to remove any remaining plastic crap, and try again. The two halves still kind of feel odd in attaching by that ridge, rather than the ridge snapping or sliding into the other half - it feels like something that should happen to ensure the two halves connect smoothly and isn't, like, offset or warped in any way.

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby jram » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:39 am

I've run these and the new ball cups and arms for about 90 hours at this point and I couldn't be more happy with the results. I had a few hiccups during install of the carriages due to putting the spring arm on backwards (yes Gene says to watch for this in the manual but I still did it). I broke two spring arms trying to separate them from each other after installing them incorrectly. I was able to repair them by drilling out the remainder of the broken pin in each one and then using a 1/8 inch drill bit shaft cut to size on each side to make a new pin. I capped the hole off with thin CA glue and it's rock solid. Just wanted to share this in case it happens to others. I also found that waxing the screws helped when joining the two clear plastic pieces.
Machines- Rostock Max v2 with E3D v6, Corsair 750 power supply, PEI bed,injection molded carriages and new arms. Aluminum mount. X carve with x controller. Stratasys Uprint SE

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby PartDaddy » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:33 am

Send support @seemecnc.com an email and I will warranty the parts. Please send a photo of the broken parts with the email. Installing the spring arms correct is very important for longevity (I expect more than 10 years). If you put them on backwards, the arms will be stretched slightly. While they will still work, they won't quite grip the same as new arms.
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby Eaglezsoar » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:32 pm

PartDaddy wrote:The future arm injection mold is on the bench right now. It's a ball cup design with a 290mm center to center length. It does bring the diameter back and makes it less sensitive when printing to the edge of the print area.

I have tested the first carriage for over a year and haven't haven't noticed any problems with the limit screw adjustment. However, I'll look at our machines and carriages again carefully to check the fit and function of those limit screws.

The carriages released are from a third injection mold because I wasn't happy with the first two molds I designed. Primarily how the bearings fit and how the halves fit together.

As for those limit screws, their days are numbered. The probe will eliminate any need for them. A new machine build in the future will self calibrate completely in just a few minutes (yes: level, Z, and horizontal radius automagically). We should have this by year end. Testing stuff note. Beside probes being standard on all our machines (including the little Eris), we'll make a reverse compatible probe kit as well. :)


A reverse compatible probe kit - YAHOO!!! :) :D :) :D

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby jram » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:50 am

PartDaddy wrote:Send support @seemecnc.com an email and I will warranty the parts. Please send a photo of the broken parts with the email. Installing the spring arms correct is very important for longevity (I expect more than 10 years). If you put them on backwards, the arms will be stretched slightly. While they will still work, they won't quite grip the same as new arms.

Sounds good , I will submit another ticket. I submitted one approximately 10 days ago but did not hear back, I wasn't too worried about new ones once repaired it. However since you mentioned the possible issue from stretched plastic, I'll go ahead and replace them .
Machines- Rostock Max v2 with E3D v6, Corsair 750 power supply, PEI bed,injection molded carriages and new arms. Aluminum mount. X carve with x controller. Stratasys Uprint SE

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby PartDaddy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:55 pm

you might check tonight at midnight. . . ;)
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby DGBK » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:01 am

lumpy_potato wrote:The two halves don't seem to fit intuitively - there is a little ridge on the rim of inner shell that I feel should snap into the outer shell to make sure they connect cleanly, but I cannot for the life of me get them to slip inside of each other. Are they intended to just sit against each other rather than snapping 'in' the same way the bearing fittings snap in?


Same question. The two halves look like they should snap together cleanly but there is a fairly prominent gap. I'm afraid I'll strip the plastic if I turn the screws any farther.

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby Windshadow » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:34 am

As for those limit screws, their days are numbered. The probe will eliminate any need for them. A new machine build in the future will self calibrate completely in just a few minutes (yes: level, Z, and horizontal radius automagically). We should have this by year end. Testing stuff note. Beside probes being standard on all our machines (including the little Eris), we'll make a reverse compatible probe kit as well. :)
~PartDaddy

PartDaddy I hope you are getting close to shipping this kit as the limit adjusting screws are my major problem right now... The one on the alpha tower I have adjusted so much it now visabley wobbles when I hits the switch and the gamma one has knocked the metal flap of its end stop limit switch twice and Si am about to replace that switch with a new one.

If you want any extra testers of the final kit as applied to the Rostock max v2 and a new user I would be more than happy to be a Guinea Pig :geek:

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby geneb » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:44 am

Windshadow, if you've got the screws out that far you need to reset all three and start over. Also check to make sure that the top is properly seated on the towers - the little depth stop screws should be in firm contact with the top of each tower.

DGBK, the screws should pull the halves together as long as the bearings are properly seated and the blue "spring" halves are fully fitted together.

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby Windshadow » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:53 am

geneb wrote:Windshadow, if you've got the screws out that far you need to reset all three and start over. Also check to make sure that the top is properly seated on the towers - the little depth stop screws should be in firm contact with the top of each tower

g.


Thanks Gene, I have done that but I have gone through the adjustment routene so many times that the Alpha tower screw is just loose even backed out just 2 turns from all the way in. I will try wrapping the threads with white Teflon tape to tighten it up but I was hopeful that the kit to retrofit my v2 with the auto calibration sensor would obviate the need for the darn things entirely hence my offer to partDaddy.... Do you have any sense on how long it will be until the kits for the upgrade are made available for sale?

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby geneb » Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:07 am

I have no idea, sorry. You know how engineers are. :)

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby DGBK » Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:41 am

I took apart one of my carriages tonight, and I don't think there is any way to completely remove that gap. Even with the wheels out it doesn't sit completely flush. I think it is just the way they fit together.

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby PartDaddy » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:10 pm

First I'll get gene another engineering change... :geek: (just kidding).

Windshadow, guinea pig you will be ;). When I get something stable & repeatable, I'll make a limited number available for beta testing. The probe is developed for the Eris first and the entire hot end design is part of the circuit board. I think everyone will like the connector. It'll allow easy swapping of the hot end. The probe will allow easy calibration. But it's gotta work right the first time.

My best "engineer" answer: we're still a couple months off a production model. The accelerometer probe signal is close to the threshold in my design. So getting firmware and hardware to operate consistently is the challenge. The typical holidays slowed things down too. Best beta test scenario is end of February.
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby Mac The Knife » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:14 pm

PartDaddy wrote:First I'll get gene another engineering change... :geek: (just kidding).

Windshadow, guinea pig you will be ;). When I get something stable & repeatable, I'll make a limited number available for beta testing. The probe is developed for the Eris first and the entire hot end design is part of the circuit board. I think everyone will like the connector. It'll allow easy swapping of the hot end. The probe will allow easy calibration. But it's gotta work right the first time.

My best "engineer" answer: we're still a couple months off a production model. The accelerometer probe signal is close to the threshold in my design. So getting firmware and hardware to operate consistently is the challenge. The typical holidays slowed things down too. Best beta test scenario is end of February.



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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby PartDaddy » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:25 pm

If you strip any plastic parts, or mess them up, or your dog ate it, email support@seemecnc.com your order number with us and your problem. Please submit your order number even if you bought our product through a re-seller.

We will warranty any plastic parts we manufactured as long as you can provide proof of purchase through us or a re-seller. The limit of warranty at the time of this post is one year from date of purchase, but (at our discretion) we'll warranty our parts (excluding hot end) the original purchaser after one year. All parts are warranted against defects upon receipt.

Our team here at SeeMeCNC believe in designing things to last a very long time. If you have a problem, just email.

[ This post is not a replacement or addendum for the warranty on our website: seemecnc.com ]
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby PartDaddy » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:31 pm

Here's a cross section through the screw holes of the IM Cheapskate.

IMCheapskatebyPartDaddy.JPG
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby Windshadow » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:06 pm

PartDaddy wrote:First I'll get gene another engineering change... :geek: (just kidding).

Windshadow, guinea pig you will be ;). When I get something stable & repeatable, I'll make a limited number available for beta testing. The probe is developed for the Eris first and the entire hot end design is part of the circuit board. I think everyone will like the connector. It'll allow easy swapping of the hot end. The probe will allow easy calibration. But it's gotta work right the first time.

My best "engineer" answer: we're still a couple months off a production model. The accelerometer probe signal is close to the threshold in my design. So getting firmware and hardware to operate consistently is the challenge. The typical holidays slowed things down too. Best beta test scenario is end of February.


Thanks for the update.
one of the main reasons I bought the RMAX2 was the principal of continuous updating of the design that you have at your company even if it does make Gene's life 'interesting' and of course the whole community I see here on your forums.

the wrap of teflon tape has firmed up the alpha tower adjustment screw on its skate for now and I look forward to being an experimental animal for you in a few months :geek:

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby geneb » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:15 pm

No, what'll happen is that he'll start shipping them and then email me when the kits are a couple of days out from customer delivery. :D :D :D

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby DGBK » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:05 pm

PartDaddy wrote:Here's a cross section through the screw holes of the IM Cheapskate.

IMCheapskatebyPartDaddy.JPG


Intentional gap! Thank you.

Edit: stupid auto correct.
Last edited by DGBK on Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby PartDaddy » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:38 am

LOL
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