New carriages are available!

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geneb
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New carriages are available!

Postby geneb » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:42 pm

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby cyber.shifter » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:27 pm

I just got the email! Are they really as good as they sound? I'm guessing there was extensive design testing before they were made available? I'd love to get some if they are worth it. I'm fairly new, so anything that helps me eliminate a factor that could go wrong is worth it to me.
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby geneb » Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:34 pm

They're awesome. Take a look at the manual to see how they're installed.

g.
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby cyber.shifter » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:26 pm

I just looked at it. These look really solid, I'm excited to give them a try. I may take advantage of the discount going on right now.
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby geneb » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:50 pm

One thing to remember - these increase your horizontal radius by about 10mm. When calibrating, you'll want to start off with a Horizontal Radius setting of 140!

g.
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby Jimustanguitar » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:50 pm

geneb wrote:One thing to remember - these increase your horizontal radius by about 10mm. When calibrating, you'll want to start off with a Horizontal Radius setting of 140!

g.


So not to bring up touchy subjects, but does this mean that the people concerned with build volume would lose another centimeter in diameter?

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby PartDaddy » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:51 pm

no , increase!
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby Jimustanguitar » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:03 pm

So the axles move closer to the center - or farther out? My brain isn't working.

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby ZakRabbit » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:27 pm

Jimustanguitar wrote:So the axles move closer to the center - or farther out? My brain isn't working.


Farther from the center of the bed, closer to the rails.

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby PartDaddy » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:06 pm

Ok, after further review, it does decrease at the edge of the heated bed between the towers. And slightly increase at the towers. So, the print area is slightly smaller with 269 mm arms (my oversight). Benefits of the IM new carriage include better rigidity through tighter ball bearings and constant force spring arm tensioners. The current acetal universal joint design with washer face works really smooth against the axle mounts. The machined R4 bearing sleeves roll more smooth than the 608 bearing sleeves.

"The cat's outta the bag" Our goals for our kits are price/performance, aesthetics second. The boss design on the carriage, which is used to fasten the axles mounts, also accepts an acetal ball joint mount (looks like a bar-bell). The future arms will be longer and cup the balls. We're working on that now. A new platform (not finished) will have the same boss design to accept the axle mount or ball mount. These will be out later this year.

Here's an assembly PDF of the new carriage. Files on our seemecnc github under machine_elements

https://github.com/seemecnc/Machine_Ele ... dapter.pdf
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby PartDaddy » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:57 pm

JJ Johnson also helped engineer this design. Here's a prototype IM Cheapskate that's been running on his desk for quite a while. The green axle adapter were liquid resin printed on the Droplit.

IMCheapskatePicwAxle.jpg
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby Eaglezsoar » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:52 am

The Rostock Max is improving all the time, excellent!

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby bvandiepenbos » Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:48 pm

Jimustanguitar wrote:
geneb wrote:One thing to remember - these increase your horizontal radius by about 10mm. When calibrating, you'll want to start off with a Horizontal Radius setting of 140!

g.


So not to bring up touchy subjects, but does this mean that the people concerned with build volume would lose another centimeter in diameter?


I think it does decrease print area... if the arm mount point is moved further away from bed center then arm can not reach as far opposite tower. right?
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby bvandiepenbos » Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:58 pm

Nice work Steve, JJ & John the new carriage is definitely better than the original cheapskate design.
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby MrJoe » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:00 am

Will the plastic used for the spring arms creep over time and loosen the grip on the rails?

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby Jimustanguitar » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:33 am

MrJoe wrote:Will the plastic used for the spring arms creep over time and loosen the grip on the rails?


This reminds me... What material is it? Will they hold up in a heated build enclosure?

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby PartDaddy » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:18 am

The spring arms are same material as the arms used in our machine since 2012. We use a high quality glass filled nylon of which I have over 12 years of experience molding. It will not creep or set because we do not exceed the elastic limit of the material. Note: You can damage the arm by installing the curve the wrong way. Please observe the photo for correct installation.

Curve Spring Arm Install.jpg



The carraiges on my v2 behind my desk have been tested for more than a year and they are a one piece ABS spring arm.

SeeMeCNC carriage test running strong more than a year.jpg
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby eigenbot » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:51 pm

I've tinkered some with the old cheapskates on a v1 printer at my husband's work, but we also bought a v2 which came with the new cartridges and put it together last weekend. The new carriages were a dream to install. Has been printing great!

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby eigenbot » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:25 am

What are the chances the new carriages result in a longer diagonal rod than the old cheapskates?

After trying to print some larger prints, I noticed my bed was consistently too far from the nozzle between the towers. I found the calibration tool here from RollieRowland: https://github.com/RollieRowland/Delta-Bed-Calibration-Tool for leveling my bed, and noticed from his diagrams in the forum post that the easiest fix to that particular problem would be increasing the diagonal rod. The tool suggested increasing my diagonal rod to 270.98 (from 269), which seems to be a larger change than one would expect since it sounds like diagonal rod should be a direct measurement of the arms.

If my bed is just oddly regularly unlevel, I suppose changing the diagonal rod by about 1% should decrease my print scale in the xy dimensions by the same ratio - so maybe I'll test that out next.

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby KAS » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:23 am

I would say the diagonal rod is the same 269mm although the carriage offset might have changed.
As for RollieRowland's calibration, just take note that changing the arm length could mess with the dimensional accuracy of the printed part.


delta_terms.jpg
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby MrJoe » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:38 am

PartDaddy wrote:The spring arms are same material as the arms used in our machine since 2012. We use a high quality glass filled nylon of which I have over 12 years of experience molding. It will not creep or set because we do not exceed the elastic limit of the material. Note: You can damage the arm by installing the curve the wrong way. Please observe the photo for correct installation.

Curve Spring Arm Install.jpg



The carraiges on my v2 behind my desk have been tested for more than a year and they are a one piece ABS spring arm.

SeeMeCNC carriage test running strong more than a year.jpg



Thank you for taking the time to explain that the material is glass filled nylon and that the design does not exceed the elastic limit of the material. 12 years experience molding this material certainly qualifies you as an expert too.

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby eigenbot » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:52 am

KAS wrote:I would say the diagonal rod is the same 269mm although the carriage offset might have changed.


That makes much more since - I wasn't sure how the diagonal arm was calculated/measured and didn't realize there was a separate carriage offset. I was really trying to get at the idea that the carriages might be a different thickness.

Is there a way to figure out what the new carriage offset would be? Without changing diagonal rod, my virtual towers are all about .35mm lower than the actual towers.

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby jjjohnson » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:41 pm

FYI: The theoretical CARRIAGE HORIZONTAL OFFSET is 27.9700 mm

***EDIT: This is for the new Injection Molded Carriages now shipping with kits***
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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby KAS » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:44 pm

The firmware has the following listed, I'm guessing this is the melamine carriage with JJ's post above?

Code: Select all

/** \brief Horizontal offset of the universal joints on the vertical carriages.*/
#define CARRIAGE_HORIZONTAL_OFFSET 38.4  // Theoretical is 38.4, but actual may be slightly diff. due to plastic injection molded

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Re: New carriages are available!

Postby eigenbot » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:32 pm

I measured the cheapskates on the V1 at my husbands work and the injection molded cartridges and found the axle to be about 11mm closer to the axis than the cheapskates. I can't find carriage offset in the EEPROM setting though - is there somewhere else to change it?

ETA: glad my measurement more or less lined up with actual dimensions. I figured out how to get to configuration.h file and have changed carriage offset to see if that will fix my issues.


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