Faster Heated Bed

Check out how others are building and modding their own heated beds
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KAS
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby KAS » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:03 am

I cant see your image above, but I have mine wired a bit differently from your description. Although I'm not sure that would effect your F3 fuse.

Can you post a picture of your install?


On mine,

power supply negative to Crydom 1, Crydom 2 to Onyx negative.

Power supply positive straight to Onyx positive.

Larger image for a better look : http://forum.seemecnc.com/download/file.php?id=10275&mode=view

Image

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Jrjones
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby Jrjones » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:02 pm

ignacmc wrote:Hello to all

I have wired my SSR (Crydom D1D40) as per gchristopher schematics:

[img]/Users/ignacmc/OneDrive/3D PRINTING/24V PSU - SSR/24v_upgrade.jpg/[img]

But when I switch on the printer F3 fuse blows...Any advice?

Thanks in advance


For sharing your onedrive pics, right click the image and select "Share a onedrive link" like here:
snip.png


and paste it into whatever: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=E ... hoto%2cjpg

Fuse F3 controls the logic, hot end, and fans. Is it possible you dropped a wire or something else conductive on the rambo board causing a short somewhere?

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby ignacmc » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:27 pm

Thanks everybody for your help and sorry for not answering earlier. I was busy and a bit tired of fighting with the electronics issue

I have wired the SSR following KAS instructions...And I seems to kinda work but the following happens:

If I measure voltages at the exit of the 24V to 12V converter with the RAMBo board power plug DISCONNECTED, everything seems OK: 24V at the input and 12V at the output. The Crydom SSR is connected and it reads 24V between 1 and +2 (Open circuit) and 0V between 4 and +3 (normal since the RAMBo is unplugged.

Now I switch everything off, I connect the power Plug to the RAMBo and kick the switch on. What happens now? Well, everything seems to work, including LCD and heated bed, but I notice that if I measure the voltage at the output of the converter and in the RAMBo Power Plug I obtain 24V now!!! The board is being fed at 24V!!!!

Why the F3 fuse does not blow now? Because I changed it to a 10A unit instead of the original 5A, so it seems to be able to withstand the increased current that results from being fed at 24V. That's why I am able to measure the voltage this time and not the times I tried before when it blew instantly....

What I am doing wrong? Where can the extra 12V come from? The converter seems to work ok while the RAMBo board is not plugged...

Please help...I am getting really desperate with this

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby Eric » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:39 pm

Remember we're still going solely on your words, and haven't seen the image you tried to post. Perhaps if you tried again to post your circuit diagram? Or pictures if that would show the details of your wiring setup. Or both?

The logic and LCD work because Rambo has a 5V regulator on the board, which has no problem with 24V instead of 12V as input. But the fan and hotend outputs would be seeing the higher voltage if what you say is right.

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Tincho85
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby Tincho85 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:55 pm

The Rambo board is being fed only by the step down converter?
It's a DC/DC converter? how many amps can it handle? Maybe it can't handle the load so that's why it delivers 24v when working.

Share a picture or diagram of your connections when you can.
Martín S.

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby ignacmc » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:31 am

Hello to all

This is my setup:

Image

And the DC converter is a 30A one
Last edited by ignacmc on Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby ignacmc » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:32 am


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KAS
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby KAS » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:16 am

What is the brand/model of the dc/dc converter?

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby ignacmc » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:33 pm

I have tried several:

the first only 10A and got overloaded

The second one is:
Xincol DC 24V to DC12V Big 30A Voltage Reducer DC/DC Converter
http://www.xincol.com/product-detail/dc-24v-to-dc12v-big-30a-voltage-reducer-dcdc-converter-2/

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KAS
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby KAS » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:07 pm

Please post a pic of your setup. Hard to work through this without a visual.

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nitewatchman
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby nitewatchman » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:55 pm

To me the wiring sketch you posted looks okay and is basically how mine is connected. One question however is on the 24VDC to 12VDC converter, how did you handle or connect the magic yellow wires?

Looks like on the 24VDC side connect the yellow to the red but on the 12VDC side the yellow should just float or be cut.

gary

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby ignacmc » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:18 am

Yes, I connected the yellow to the red in the 24V side and left it unused on the 12V side...

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby ignacmc » Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:21 am

I even disconected yellow from red on the input, but the same keeps happening:

INPUT: 24V
No load OUTPUT: 12V
With Load OUTPUT: 24 V!!!

I am trying tonight using the previously unused yellow wire on the OUTPUT. But the converter instruction clearly say it does not need to be used!!!

Looked a simple thing in the beginning, but this is driving me nuts! :oops:

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Tincho85
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby Tincho85 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:27 am

Contact their customer support, it looks like a faulty step-down.
If not, they might tell you what's going on wrong.
Martín S.

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby Tincho85 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:34 pm

Guys I need help asap, I think my SSR have just failed...
When I turn on the printer the bed temperature keeps rising by itself.

* It's a 100a Fotek.
* It' has never gotten hot when operative.
* No signs of a burnt.
* There is no light in the SSR.

How can I tell if the SSR is failing? maybe fix it?

EDIT: moved to a new thread:
http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=10744
Martín S.

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby DeltaCon » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:10 pm

I took Tincho's picture from the OP because that's what I used to upgrade my Max V2.
I made 2 additions:

24VHeatBedConsComment.jpg


- I have a Crydom D1D40 instead of the (ill advised) Fotek, and my Onyx heated up directly after switching on the whole mikmak. Better looking I found that the plus and minus on the output side are reversed compared to the fotek. Switching the wires resolved the problem. I have been heating the Onyx to 90C for a minute or 20. It gets the temp up dramatically quick (with the voltage of the PSU set to the minimum of 20,5V, I can't turn it lower any more than that). This SSR does not get warm at all! I strapped it to the metal of the PSU thinking it gets a bit better cooling than none that way.

- I read elsewhere that an inline fuse is advised. I found the one I added in the picture below. Looks nice and you can stick it in a hole in the base for easy changing (although the base will most likely have to be opened up if the fuse fails anyway...) What Fuse should I use. 30 Amps? Perhaps 25 would be sufficient, but I guess if the Onyx shorts that makes no real difference if a 25 or a 30A fuse gets burnt.

I also added a switched external receptive for a regular powercord. One that is fused 10A on the 240V side. And added a 8cm PC casefan to the base to get some airflow around the stepdown converter. But apparently that does not get warm too. Nice effect of the stepdown is that it gives out 12,5V (?) very rock-solid. Heating the hotend does not even give a fluctuation in the output voltage (anyway not measurable with my multimeter set to 1 digit behind the dot).

I have a Delta Electronics PSU with a noise fan (they all seem to have that). But it only turns on when a significant load is... loaded. It only turns on when the Onyx LED is lit (and the bed heats of course) and immediately shuts off when PWM switches the bed of. That is very annoying but I hope it won't be anymore when the base gets closed again.

24VHeatBedSetupCon.jpg


So, my original on/off switch is not used anymore. Can someone think of a nice repurpose of that? I would be nice to have some emergency power off or something ;-) I could use it to switch the 12V circuit but I am not sure that makes sense...

Thanks for this great guide! It was very helpful.
I am DeltaCon, I have a delta, my name is Con, I am definitely PRO delta! ;-)
Rostock V2 / E3D V6 / Raymond Style Heatchamber on the way!

PS.: Sorry for the avatar, that's my other hobby!

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby Xenocrates » Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:24 pm

I can think of a few. Have it switch control to the SSR perhaps? Another option is to replace it with an illuminated power indicator, or perhaps a pair of them (in a nice 3d printed bezel, of course), to tell you when it's got power to either the Onyx (If like me, you have a heatspreader that blocks the LED), or the primary system, when there's 12v system power, or when the hotend is actually heating.
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby DeltaCon » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:00 pm

Yes two leds for heating hotend end bed would be nice, perhaps combined with a system power led. Could I simply put leds parallel on the heater outputs of the Rambo, or would pwm kill them?

Still I would like to have an emergency switch, on that kills all heaters and motors but keeps the peekfan running. Someone ever did something like that? It would be super to have a sensor kill the 240V input power when temp inside the base raises to say 150C, because that would mean serious problems, perhaps fire.

But to get realistic again: what fuse do I use to protect the bedheat circuit on 20V? ;)
I am DeltaCon, I have a delta, my name is Con, I am definitely PRO delta! ;-)
Rostock V2 / E3D V6 / Raymond Style Heatchamber on the way!

PS.: Sorry for the avatar, that's my other hobby!

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby Xenocrates » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:15 pm

DeltaCon wrote:Yes two leds for heating hotend end bed would be nice, perhaps combined with a system power led. Could I simply put leds parallel on the heater outputs of the Rambo, or would pwm kill them?

Still I would like to have an emergency switch, on that kills all heaters and motors but keeps the peekfan running. Someone ever did something like that? It would be super to have a sensor kill the 240V input power when temp inside the base raises to say 150C, because that would mean serious problems, perhaps fire.

But to get realistic again: what fuse do I use to protect the bedheat circuit on 20V? ;)


It would be more likely that the voltage would kill them. You would need a current limiting resistor like is used on the Onyx itself, and the value of that is dependent on the LED in question (so I can't tell you that bit). As far as sensors to cut power go, I have a 25A relay that cuts heated bed power when a thermal fuse under the bed blows (this requires replacing the thermal fuse each time, only cuts the bed power, and is tied to the bed temp rather than anything else, but similar approaches can be taken elsewhere, like what the HE280 uses). Killing the heaters and motors while keeping the fan running is difficult. You would likely have to have a 3 contact contactor (IE, capable of handling 20+A's) relay, and have the heated bed, motor power to the rambo, and heater cartridge power out of the rambo (As killing it before the Rambo would kill the fan too, unless it was wired straight to the power supply).

For protecting the heated bed circuit at 20V, that should see a draw of 20-18A, so a 25A fuse may do it, although unless you actually sink the fuse thermally, a 30A is likely better.
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JaseGillUK
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby JaseGillUK » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:13 pm

Hi all,
Long time reader, first time poster here. I built my V2 only around 4 months ago but took this long to sort out a faulty log in here.
I also want to upgrade to a faster heating bed so the 24V route seems to be the right one.
To do that I have bought a 24V 25A 600W PSU, a 24-280V 40A SSR and some 10AWG cables as well as an inline fuse.
I have also bought a 24V Onyx (Rev3) bed, a thermistor for it and some 3mm LED's (figured a few just in case).

As I am in the UK and getting supplies is often an issue (postage is a killer given Brexit and £/$ exchange rates) I also bought the HE280 and cable loom for it as it made sense to get stuff in bulk - thats all for a later Print Head update even though I love my current E3D-V6 and 713Maker mount that was my 1st real upgrade step.

So my questions on the 24V bed upgrade are these:
1. Do I need to use a 24V bed here? It seems a lot of folks are using their standard 12v one and just upping the PSU voltage input?
2. if I use the 24v bed I have the aforementioned 24v 25A 600W PSU. What size resistor should I solder to the bed for the LED? I'm Ok doing the maths but get lost as to which bit of maths is the right one so any pointers would be very useful.

Thank You,
Jason.

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Xenocrates
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby Xenocrates » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:33 pm

JaseGillUK wrote:Hi all,


So my questions on the 24V bed upgrade are these:
1. Do I need to use a 24V bed here? It seems a lot of folks are using their standard 12v one and just upping the PSU voltage input?
2. if I use the 24v bed I have the aforementioned 24v 25A 600W PSU. What size resistor should I solder to the bed for the LED? I'm Ok doing the maths but get lost as to which bit of maths is the right one so any pointers would be very useful.

Thank You,
Jason.


1. Nope. the 24V bed Seeme sells sits in between the 12V and the 24v operated versions of the normal one, which makes it less of a bear to source power supplies for. You can (And may want to) use that, since you have it.

2. Assuming that the LED is designed for a voltage drop of ~1.8 (Common for red LEDs), you would need a resistor that is 750-820 ohms, and ~ half a watt. Something like this would be perfect. See if you can't find a nice electronics store around you that sells components, otherwise it's unlikely to be worth ordering in case you blow the LED.
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, 760W corsair modular PSU, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, self adjusting carriages, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

JaseGillUK
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby JaseGillUK » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:17 pm

Thanks Xeno,
Thats what I thought.
The resistor I had in mind is in that range too.
I just wanted to make sure I don't blow anything and check my understanding.
Thanks :)

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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby 626Pilot » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:59 pm

Does this look right? I'm using the old 450W Viotek power supply, using the SSR to bypass the MOSFET on the controller because the plug gets hot. I'm using three each of the + and - wires from the PSU.

20170112_174047.jpg

PSU +12V to Onyx + through a wire nut
Onyx - to SSR +
SSR - to PSU Ground

Is that wire nut OK, or is it going to give me trouble?

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626Pilot
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby 626Pilot » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:56 pm

Also, is this 25-amp DC breaker good enough? https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems ... eaker&th=1

I used an online calculator to figure out that 24V @ 1.1 ohms is a little over 20 amps. Should I go higher?

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Xenocrates
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Re: Faster Heated Bed

Postby Xenocrates » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:28 am

626Pilot wrote:Also, is this 25-amp DC breaker good enough? https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems ... eaker&th=1

I used an online calculator to figure out that 24V @ 1.1 ohms is a little over 20 amps. Should I go higher?

It's about right, as breakers/fuses should run at at most 80% capacity. I might over size it a little, but there's other voltage drops which will drop the amperage slightly, so don't worry too much (I just overbuild things). For the SSR' it's hard to tell, but if that single wire is coming from the bed as I think it is, it's fine. (I made a mistake in the polarity myself and toasted one, but hey, the terminals are cool. I just need to finish prying them loose).
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, 760W corsair modular PSU, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, self adjusting carriages, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver

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