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Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:14 am
by gchristopher
The Story of the Dinosaurs with a 3D Printer:

Oh no! Poor TRex! Her arms are too short!
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Don't worry, TRex, your clever friend Stega has a plan to help.
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Step 1 is to acquire funding. He's not using THIS right now!
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Next up was to go shopping on the internet! They compared lots of options and decided that delta printers are cool, and this one is at a great price.
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Shipping was fast, even to the middle of Alaska. Before you knew it, the dinosaurs were building a Rostock Max V2!

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The only modification for the initial build was some motor noise dampeners from TrickLaser.


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The uprights and carriages got put together.


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The wire runs were a little tough to pull through, but the top got assembled just fine.


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Stega checks the wiring length for the hot end and fans.


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And then carefully finishes the wire routing on the top plate.


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Stega installs the EZStruder while TRex makes sure the carriages are fun to ride.


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This isn't a 3d printer, it's a carnival ride!


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Even carefully labelled, all the wires were pretty confusing! Let's double-check the instructions.


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All put together, time for a final check and tightening all the nuts.


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After more fear-induced double-checking of the wiring and procrastination, the power switch is flipped and the LCD comes to life. Nothing caught fire!


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Z-axis adjustment and bed leveling took a couple hours of careful checking.


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Oops, make sure the spool is in the right spot. That was a mess during the first print.


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Wow, the first couple fan shroud prints sure came out nice! That's impressive.


Alright! We've got a 3d printer! And it works great! Now let's make some things!

TRex pokes her head into the totally professional-looking fume hood to check on the print! (The green ABS was a different brand and quite a bit smellier than the black.)
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Here's TRex's first design! (Stega helped with some of the hard parts, like learning OpenSCAD, or maybe most of the hard parts...)
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They work! Raaaaarrrr!
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Yaaay for 3d printing! Nobody can stop us now!
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You can check out TRex's working Extension Grabber Arm on Thingiverse.

Maybe once the dinosaurs calm down and finish printing Christmas presents, we can talk about all the other things planned for this printer, like upgrading to the (already acquired) E3D V6 hotend, wiring quick-connects, and an enclosure not made out of cardboard and plastic bags. Then playing with TGlass and nylon and maybe even some dual extrusion aspirations?

Thanks to SeeMeCNC for the great machine, MatterHackers for fast service, and to GeneB for the phenomenally well written assembly guide! The printer was a breeze to assemble (again, thanks in huge part to the excellent instructions) and is cranking out nice prints!

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:07 am
by guanu
ok, not sure if you just get that bored in alaska, but that was one of the greatest build logs I've seen... soo happy for TRex able to get his candy now... but one question... where the HELL did the rogue monkey come from when stega a trex were checking the wires... they better watch their backs with someone encroaching on their area..

Guanu

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:09 am
by HighDanger
Nice work! And the build looks very cool with the dinosaur :D

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:39 am
by Eaglezsoar
Very nice build log, very entertaining!

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:44 am
by barry99705
I'm kinda disappointed. In none of the backgrounds are a pair of bunny boots! Awesome build log though!

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:55 am
by BenTheRighteous
That was hilarious! Thanks for sharing! :)

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:18 am
by geneb
This is the best build log I think I've ever seen. Many fake Internet points to you! :D

g.

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:22 am
by Nylocke
Will the Dinos continue to build and upgrade the printer? Will they update the build log? What will they need next? Find out in the next post!!

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:15 pm
by Eaglezsoar
Let's see a little more of the monkey! :)

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:09 pm
by lightninjay
Lol, Carl, that Monkey already has the capabilities to fly, what more could a monkey ask for from a 3D printer run by dinosaurs?!

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:34 pm
by bot
Those are some crafty Dinos. Nice freaking arms too that's amazing. Hahaha. I love it.

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:33 pm
by Glacian22
This build log had an insufficient levels of dinos. :x

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:55 pm
by crocky
Well done :)

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:32 am
by BenTheRighteous
I gotta say, before I opened the thread for the first time, I thought "dinosaurs" meant "really old men." This version is much, much better than what I had in mind!

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:46 pm
by gchristopher
Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone! This has been a great experience.

guanu wrote:... where the HELL did the rogue monkey come from

Eaglezsoar wrote:Let's see a little more of the monkey! :)

The flying monkey arrived in the mail from an ex I hadn't seen in years, with a note that his name was Captain Fancypants and I was NOT allowed to change his name. He's a superhero, and a very successful one! Since he arrived, there have been zero successful supervillian attacks on the house.

The other printer in the household, a Prusa i3, is having problems with z-axis reliability, so the Rostock has been on full-time Christmas present printing duty. (Though I'd rather be fiddling with upgrading it.) Captain Fancypants has been doing most of the operator work.

This was a 45 hour print. Wow!
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Ogo Toy Things:
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Nylocke wrote:Will the Dinos continue to build and upgrade the printer? Will they update the build log? What will they need next? Find out in the next post!!

Family visit travel is about to take the next three weeks, but when we get back to Alaska, here's the current upgrade plan:

  • Additional wire runs and quick-connect panel for extruder wiring. (Wire connectors already arrived from Mouser, slot trim for the wire runs on order from TrickLaser.)
  • Switch to an E3D v6 hotend. (Here and ready to go.)
  • Try out the carbon fiber arms from TrickLaser. (On order)
  • Acrylic enclosure to contain the ABS fumes. (Interestingly, the cardboard-and-trash-bag fume hood also cut down on noise.)
  • Add an activated charcoal air filter to the enclosure with fans to recycle air through it. (And trade up to a gray/purple organic respirator filter if that's still not enough.)
  • Slap some radiators/fans on the motors. (The extruder motor, especially, should get some cooling if I'm going to run it for days at a time. Parts on order from friendly robotdigg people in China.)
  • Consider case fans and noise dampening for the base.
  • The Raspberry Pi is happily running OctoPrint and a webcam. Find it a home somewhere in the case.

Stega appears to have her own plans, too. Uh-oh!
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Glacian22 wrote:This build log had an insufficient levels of dinos. :x

Hi Glacian22!!!
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Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:15 am
by bot
Is she going to Mun?

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:42 pm
by Print_This
very creative, enjoyed the build log!

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:50 am
by astroboy907
TARDIS!!!

(appearance of time machine explains appearance of intelligent, mechanically gifted dinosaurs)

This guide is full of win. I too, give thee an abundance of internet points. :D

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:55 am
by travelphotog
One of the best build logs I have seen. Super great job! Hope the Dinos keep us updated on the Max down the road also!

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:48 am
by gchristopher
Vacation is over and filament was the number one present. So, the Dinos are back in business and working on upgrading their printer to learn and try more adventurous prints. (And also the printer is a giant toy.)

Today's experiment was with bed heating times! Who wants to wait a half hour for the bed to head up enough for ABS to adhere? TRex thinks it should be ready now! "NOW NOW NOW!"

The Rostock V2 with Onyx Heat Bed Rev7 and stock 600W power supply already works great, but our intrepid dinosaurs are on a quest to discover the fine line between improved performance and setting yourself on fire.

Several methods for improving bed heat times are already well-covered in the forums, so let's try a couple and compare the results! It's a head-to-head grudge match, complete with mediocre testing methodology and hyperbole!

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In one corner: we have a PSU with over twice the rated wattage than the stock power supply. The EVGA SuperNOVA 1300G2 was available from Amazon for a pretty reasonable price, and got a very complimentary review from HardOCP, where it held voltage well when loaded to 80+ amps. It's a high-end power supply for overclockers and should be plenty powerful to set fire to our DIY printer wiring job.

In the other corner: we have soft cotton terrycloth from JoAnn's fabric, the very same you'll find in cheap dish towels, folded over a couple times and inexpertly sewn into a moderately convincing circle the same size as the print bed.

It's a print bed cozy!

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The testing methodology was pretty simple. Wait for the bed to cool close to ambient, then set it to 90C and record when the bed reaches temperature.

For the all-stock setup, using the 600W PSU and no bed cozy, time to reach 90C was 25 min, 16 sec. Ouch, pretty slow. The max temperature this configuration can achieve is around 95C.

Next up was to test with a bed cozy. The cozy was set on the print bed and the test was repeated. Time to 90C was 13 min, 32 sec. Wow! That's almost a 2x speedup just using a dish towel. And since the stock Rostock has no problem holding 90C once it gets there, there's no downside to using a towel.

We probably wouldn't want to use the towel to go much hotter, because the bed would cool back down once the towel is removed, so it'd only be hotter for the first several layers.

It's still not clear if the bigger power supply actually fits inside the Rostock V2 case, but the modular power connectors should help save some space. The printer was rewired with the PSU sitting outside the case, PID tuning was re-run, EEPROM values updated, and the tests repeated.

With the 1300W power supply, time to reach 90C was 12 min, 44 sec, also a lot faster than the pure stock test, but not tremendously faster than using the dish towel. In this configuration, the bed will also go up to 110C without any problem, and the experimenters were afraid to try going any higher.

With the addition of the bed cozy, time to reach 90C was 10 min, 01 sec. While still a speedup, it's not nearly as dramatic as with the lower-power stock power supply.

Here's a graph of the tests with temperature curves superimposed, aligned so each starts at the same time.

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Jumping to Conclusions:

If all you need is a Rostock V2 print bed that heats up faster, a dish towel will do the job about as fast as a fancy power supply upgrade. (At least one that doesn't increase the voltage.)

The bed PID tuning wasn't re-run with the bed cozy, because during the print, the cozy will be removed. Maybe it should be re-tuned? One issue was that there was more overshoot with the cozy in place. One thing to try next will be to remove the cozy and see if it stabilizes faster.

What the power supply did that the towel really can't was to heat the bed to a higher max temperature and hold it there.

But now the dinosaurs have both! The time is soon approaching to do a full teardown and rewiring job. That's when the new PSU will be squeezed in, and it'll be good to go for higher bed temperatures and probably fine with other power draws like multiple extruders.

Caveats that most readers already know: Using a Printed Circuit Board as a resistive heating element is susceptible to variations in the fabrication process, as things like the thickness of the copper plating can have a big impact on the resistance of long traces. These results might not hold even for another Rev7 Heat Bed that might have come off a different production batch. This is a poorly controlled residential experimental environment, with freezing cold outside, drafty, and with intermittent central heating coming on and off.

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:29 pm
by gchristopher
The printer has been using the 1300W power supply for a while, with it just sitting outside the printer and wires running in. The bed performance is amazingly better, and has no problem achieving and holding 110C.

The new power supply fits nicely inside the case! (Heat bed cozy also pictured.) The old PSU was easy to remove through the bottom hole, but the EVGA 1300G2 is long enough that it can't just slide into the case. We had to turn the printer upside down and take off the bottom panel. That wasn't as painful as you might expect; only the little bracket holders for the RAMBo fell out of place and needed holding to put the bottom back on.

One interesting note was how much heavier the new PSU is compared to the old one. Air flow might be an ongoing concern with more space taken up inside. Hopefully the tower alignment will still be okay, too.

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Since it's a modular power supply, the wiring harness can have only the lines we need, without cutting wires coming out of the PSU, which is nice. First we had to make a good map of the pinout of the PSU, which was obtained by first tracing the wires from the ATX connector, then validating the voltage on each pin directly with a multimeter. Like most big power supplies, this as a single 12V bus, so we don't need to worry about which specific 12V lines to grab.

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The wiring harness becomes extremely simple! (Oops, I just realized that the picture below is taken upside-down relative to the diagram above. That's not good documentation practice!)

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For the RAMBo, a local computer shop donated two scrap 8-pin power extension cables, with one end cut off for the screw terminals. You could also get the housings and crimp pins for cheaper than buying an assembly, but these were free.

Eventually, we'd like to power more fans and other goodies from the printer, so being able to get at all the ATX supply pins would be great. The 18-pin housing was $0.54 on digikey, plus crimp pins. To make things easier, a quick connect was added to the on/off switch. Those were from Mouser: a 2 pin 0.1" latching header and receptacle with female and male crimp pins. That allows access to every power bus except for -12V and the 5V standby, which we'll eventually want to power a Pi continuously, so it won't lose power when the printer is turned off.

Overall, this was a fun and easy upgrade!

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:41 pm
by KAS
What part of Alaska?

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:25 pm
by Eaglezsoar
I am still enjoying the dinosaurs and the way you write. Very informative but with a little added humor. Great Job!

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:52 pm
by barry99705
gchristopher wrote:For the RAMBo, a local computer shop donated two scrap 8-pin power extension cables, with one end cut off for the screw terminals.



2Geeks?

Re: Dinosaurs Build a Rostock Max V2 in Alaska

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:11 pm
by gchristopher
KAS wrote:What part of Alaska?

Fairbanks, pretty much in the middle of nowhere.

Eaglezsoar wrote:I am still enjoying the dinosaurs and the way you write. Very informative but with a little added humor. Great Job!

Thanks, this remains an incredible amount of fun! Right now we're learning that tiny dinosaurs have very little natural aptitude for bending acrylic panels into Rostock enclosure-shaped shapes.

barry99705 wrote:
gchristopher wrote:a local computer shop donated ...

2Geeks?

Yes! Holy carp, how did you know that name? Several friends work/have worked there.