Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

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Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:31 am

It's still a few weeks until the kit arrives, but I have ordered my Rostock Max V2 finally. So this is the timeframe that I can toy with hypothetical ideas, without the obstruction of reality. I already know my build will not be bone-stock, and I already have some ideas how I am going to proceed. But at the same time, I have a lot of questions. So let us begin, shall we?

First oddball question... anybody know what alloy the aluminum extrusions are made from? Is it 6105-T5? Also, what is the exact length on them?
I'm thinking of getting them anodized in color, just for the hell of it.

I see a lot of mention of stripping the wire out of its sheathing. Is this just because of the available volume inside the extrustions? I have reel upon reel of 22 gauge shielded wire with 2, 4 and 6 conductors and would prefer to use these if possible. If I have to run some conduit.... so be it. I just want to plan ahead. I plan on spending a lot of time on running clean wiring.

I also see a lot of mention with tower stability on high speed prints. My brain keeps going back to other hobbies, and I am thinking of using bracing wires. It makes for very strong and light box structures, so it theoretically should work here as well. The big question is if there's a way to tie it in to the structure, while giving enough clearance to the cheapskates.

Lastly... how much time do you have between layers if you want to interrupt a print. Some things I want to make would be better served with a captive steel nut or insert in them. Is it possible to print up to a certain layer, stop for 20-30 seconds to insert a part, and then get back to printing? Or would this cause layer separation?

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:35 pm

Still a couple more weeks till the printer arrives, and I'm getting jumpy. Ordered some astrosyn dampers since this is going in my main computer / workshop room... and I like my quiet. Installed FreeCAD and got to modelling. I've never done 3D modelling before, but I think I did ok. Here's an original ball trough cover from a Sankyo Comet II pachinko machine, and my 3D models of the two parts.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Tinyhead » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:33 pm

Nice job on the parts! They look pretty damn good to me.

I wish I knew some of the answers to your first post. I've wondered if there was a way to pause a print too so that a captive nut could be added or something similar. I know you could manually edit the gcode to pause and home the hot end and I don't think there would be much as far as layer separation if you stuck with PLA, but if you're using ABS or some other material that works best when hot it might be a different story. Where I get stuck is when it comes time to resume the print. I don't know how to tell the printer to start back up after the pause. Maybe there is something super simple and I'm just not aware. There could be something in Repetier/Matter, but I typically run off the SD card, so I haven't run through the software since my last calibration. Hopefully someone who has done this (I'm positive this is nothing new to bring to the table) could shed some light.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby geneb » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:43 pm

You might want to look at using heat-set threaded inserts. They work very well.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:21 pm

I'll definitely look into those inserts, they look like it might be right along what I need to do.

Shipping notice arrived in my e-mail this morning, which is sooner than I expected. Tracking info hasn't popped up yet but early next week would be the most likely arrival.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:24 pm

It Has Arrived!

Nothing out of the ordinary to post yet, just spent a few hours separating the melamine, and started priming the edges for color. My god this wood is thirsty, just sucking the primer right down into the grain. Not that I should be surprised, it is edge grain we're talking about, but I still would have thought the laser cutting would sear the grain shut a bit.

Mine came with a 550w power supply, Viotek VTK550R I believe. Very basic two rail power supply, nothing special to it. Has anybody dug up a datasheet for this unit, I can't find one, and want to figure out how I am going to divide the two rails into the Rambo.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Tinyhead » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:37 pm

I guess the upped the wattage for the V2s. The V1 I got a few months ago still ran the 450W.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:56 pm

To be honest, it's nice they went with the higher unit, but the internal guts in this power supply are not very good. I'd really recommend changing suppliers completely. This piece isn't even close to meeting IPC class 1 standards. The design itself is pretty generic with no glaring flaws I can see at first glance, but the workmanship is just plain awful to the point that I wonder if these power supplies are causing some of the Rambo failures out there. I have to get ready for work, but have some photos of the PSU work I did for tonight/tomorrow.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Tinyhead » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:48 pm

At 30-40 dollars, it's hard to expect a quality supply.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby nitewatchman » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:48 pm

I used a Corsair RM750 on my RNV2 from the get go. I have found that in PC's for example a cheap Power Supply is no bargin. The modular cable system is a plus also.

The 12VDC rail on this power supply runs about 12.2 volts fully loaded or idle.

Worked well for me your mileage may change.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:56 am

I almost would have preferred a no-psu option to be honest, and did put in a message on my order that I kinda didn't want it..... but since it came with the machine, might as well see what I can do with the power supply. Anyway, I cracked it open of course, after cutting all the connectors off the wiring, and it's just a basic power supply really... nothing fancy. I know, I can't expect much from a cheap power supply... but I build medical PCB's all day for a living, so going from IPC class 2 and class 3 to stuff that isn't built to any real standard at all, it's a hard switch for me.

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All the grounds go to a single pad, most of the 12v lines go to rail 1, and 4 wires go to rail 2. So I'll likely be powering the heat bed from rail 1, and everything else off rail 2. But I don't have a datasheet to give me amperage ratings on these rails, so it's a crapshoot. I may just go back and run it all from rail 1 eventually if I have problems.

Given the lumps of solder holding it all together I decided to just remove all the wires and re-install the ones I want.... it's just easier that way. I found little gems like this on the PCB. Looks like they just drilled a few more holes in the pad to add more ground wires. This is also a single sided board, non-plated thru-holes, cheap material for the board, no solder mask. This makes for weak solder joints and compromising them in this manner doesn't help. So if you do this kind of work, be really careful not to lift pads and traces.

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Out came all the 3.3v, 5v, -12v (which had a solder bridge connecting the wire to the 5v pad), and any other wire that won't be used for this build. I also put a layer of fish paper under the PCB in place of the thin clear plastic sheet that was originally there. It already looks a lot cleaner, and I have some other plans for cleaning up all the wiring fiasco when I do my build. I just haven't decided on lacing or sleeving it all.

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Pulling all the excess out gave me a nice big heap of wire to use for other projects too. No real need for the SATA connectors, but I will probably keep the molex's for various things. I go through a lot of red, black and yellow doing my pinball work.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Eaglezsoar » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:44 am

Very nice tutorial on the power supply with great pictures.
Thanks for sending this to the forum. A lot of people can learn from this.
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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:24 pm

Already learning things on this build that I'd do differently should I build another one.
Big change #1 would be to first use some kind of grain sealer on the wood before painting. It's crazy how many coats this stuff is taking to get a good finish. I'd be assembling already if I had sealed it before doing the color. I should have known better, but impatience does get in my way sometimes.

I also completely forgot I wanted to look into a threaded thermistor for the hot end. <Had a bunch of other stuff here, removed it as I kinda stuck my foot in my mouth>
Long story short though is I am going to skip it. Looked into them a bit, and apparently they are all just a bead thermistor that's epoxied into another kind of housing.
So I'm going to search out a good high-temp thermally conductive epoxy instead of the ultra copper RTV. As good as the ultra copper is as a sealant, it also peels easily and I don't want that thermistor dropping out of the hot end.
Last edited by Hans on Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:51 pm

I forgot to add, Permatex Ultra Copper and I are old friends... I've used many a tube of the stuff. So this step went quite easy for me. It's skinned over nicely, but with this thickness I'd venture at least 24 hours minimum cure time. I won't be powering up for at least a week, so shouldn't be an issue. I used some silly old thing laying around to hold the hot end up, make the picture easier. :o

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Tinyhead » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:38 pm

My hot end used to look nice too. After a few print failures with filament melted all over it... it looks like the rest of 'em.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:33 am

Here's a dumb question about how things are assembled. Is the power supply actually being installed upside down? There's a big hole on the bottom panel of the printer, which would line up perfectly with the 120mm fan on the power supply.... except the fan is on the top and thus not aligned with the hole.

Another random thought as well. I don't see a chassis ground for the Rambo at all, nor a body ground for the stepper motors. I've seen more than one system start displaying flaky performance due to this, and have seen some grumblings in this forum about similar flaky problems with the Rostock at time. If I get any oddball performance that seems to be interference related, this will definitely be part of the attack plan.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:10 pm

I also decided to change the wire I'll be using for the endstops. With all the talk of cross-inductance and noise getting on the lines, I'll be using this stuff instead of doing three separate un-shielded pairs. Will hopefully keep things a lot cleaner, and also the shielding should help prevent jitters.
http://www.siegecraft.us/presta/index.php?id_product=41&controller=product&id_lang=1

Yet more coats of paint.... and more coats of paint.... but finally starting to make some headway and getting usable parts to start assembling.
NOW we're starting to get somewhere!

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby geneb » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:47 am

As long as you follow the wiring guide, there won't BE any crosstalk issues with the end stop wires.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:46 pm

Probably not via cross-inductance, no. I just don't trust the grounding situation on the Rambo board as it is, with the previous version having the static failure issues like it did, and stepper motors generate a heap of RF noise. Once I get it up and running I can throw the scope on the power leads and see what kind of noises the machine is subjected to. If I still had my radio gear it would be even easier to spot on a spectrum waterfall. Either way, I've always had the habit of doing chassis grounds whenever possible and it's easy enough to do while while I'm still assembling.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:00 pm

Ok, got the junction blocks I was waiting for, was able to finish up the power supply wiring. In hindsight, since I already opened the darned thing up, I should have just put in a single 16 gauge wire instead of bringing out 4 of the 20ga wires and connecting them up. But sometimes you just have to stick with what you have and keep moving, or you'll never get finished.

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Mostly been proceeding as per the instructions otherwise. Stuck with Gene's excellent wiring plan for getting through the towers. Why the change from using the original Rambo kit supplied 26 gauge wires for the hot end thermistor, and swapping to the 18 gauge? These are pretty stiff wires, and serious overkill for the signal on the thermistor. I'm doing things in a pretty widely different sequence though, to get it all run all cleanly the way I want for the wiring. A lot of work to do still. Like that old Guns and Roses album.... The Spaghetti Incident.

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Lastly, did a couple modifications to my Rambo board. Added a .100 header for the fan connection instead of directly soldering. Also spotted a location for another 6 pin header that can handle my LED outputs. Wouldn't recommend doing this though unless you're good at soldering. Very easy to bridge the backside on this one and short out your output circuits. Will still make things easier for me in the long run.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby astroboy907 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:45 pm

Hey Hans, how did the installation of dampers go for you?
Flateric wrote:Black ABS, weak part, bizzare holes, bad layer adhesion, loss of details. Loss of sanity.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:51 am

astroboy907 wrote:Hey Hans, how did the installation of dampers go for you?


Seamless... honestly it went so easy I forgot to even mention them here.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby astroboy907 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:31 pm

Hans wrote:
astroboy907 wrote:Hey Hans, how did the installation of dampers go for you?


Seamless... honestly it went so easy I forgot to even mention them here.

Sweet, just wanted to check in. Your build looks really awesome!
Flateric wrote:Black ABS, weak part, bizzare holes, bad layer adhesion, loss of details. Loss of sanity.

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:20 pm

Man, I just have the worst luck with my thermistor....

First I tap the hot end for a 3mm standoff, and realize I already JB-welded my thermistor into a 6-32 standoff. Yeah, I need to pay attention better than that.
I Get that resolved, and stupid me busts a lead off the thermistor anyway. I've always hated working with the stupid things. Now I need to wait for new ones to arrive.

Getting so close to being done now too!

-Hans

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Re: Hans makes a build thread for a Rostock Max V2

Postby Hans » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:55 pm

Mechanically complete, other than cleaning up some wiring. If I hadn't busted that thermistor I'd probably be doing final calibrations and first print already. Have to wait till Tuesday for new ones to arrive, and till Wednesday for the epoxy to set in the fitting.

So time to break out the twine and needle, get lacing.


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